From: The Older Gentleman on
` <breoganmacbrath(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

> How old is the battery? Who was the manufacturer?

<Snip> and Krusty misses the problem again.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Triumph Street Triple Honda CB400F
Suzuki TS250 Suzuki GN250 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom
Nothing damages a machine more than an ignoramus with a manual, a
can-do attitude and a set of cheap tools
From: The Older Gentleman on
mike <spamme0(a)go.com> wrote:

> Regulator is at 14.39V. Well within
> the 15V max stated in the manual.
> I'd crank it down a little if I had the option.

As others have said, if it's kicking out well over 14v at idle (which I
presume is where you measured it), it'll be kicking out more higher up
the rev range. Sounds like the reg/rec is dead and/pr the connections to
it are corroded and dying.

Never heard of the sense line thing, but I'll defer to Olson on matters
electrical.

If Mark's fix doesn't work, then you'll have to replace the reg/rec[1].
And replace the battery too.

[1] Just had to do this (well, under warranty, so the dealer did) on my
Ttriump Street Triples.



--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Triumph Street Triple Honda CB400F
Suzuki TS250 Suzuki GN250 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom
Nothing damages a machine more than an ignoramus with a manual, a
can-do attitude and a set of cheap tools
From: Mark Olson on
The Older Gentleman wrote:

> Never heard of the sense line thing, but I'll defer to Olson on matters
> electrical.

Look up Lord Kelvin...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-terminal_sensing

I've seen this problem on my 86 GL1200, and my son's 84 VF500F, in fact
both of those bikes might even use the same regulator. I'm positive
they're both made by the same OEM, Shindengen.

There's a sense wire that tells the regulator what the system voltage is,
and whatever voltage the regulator is "programmed" to (set point), it
ill output enough voltage to make that sense line see the voltage it wants,
within some limits.

So if for whatever reason, there is a difference in voltage between
the battery, and where the sense line is hooked up, the battery will
see the desired voltage PLUS whatever voltage drop there is between the
battery and the sense line. In a new bike, where all the connections
are tight and not corroded, the voltage drop between the battery (+)
post and where the sense line is connected is small, so the battery
gets charged to an acceptable voltage. When there are many less than
optimal connections between the battery (+) post and the sense line, and
there is current drawn through those connections, as is the case with
hooking the sense line downstream of the ignition switch, the voltage
drop can be a significant fraction of a volt, or even more than a volt.
And that is certainly enough to go from a healthy charging system to
one that boils the battery dry in short order.

Most Jap bikes don't have a remote sense line to the regulator, their
regulators simply force the correct voltage at its output terminals,
and whatever voltage drop there is between the regulator's output and the
battery makes the battery see LESS voltage than the regulator's setpoint,
unlike the way Honda's does it.

Really, the proper fix is to replace all the old bullet connectors and
the ignition switch with new parts. Even cleaning the connectors won't
get you back to the original milli-ohm measurements, due to the spring
contacts losing tension over time. But no one ever does that short of a
full-up restoration.


From: ian field on

"WW" <ccco(a)nospambresnan.net> wrote in message
news:j_adna1Pr-Sut9jRnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d(a)bresnan.com...
>
> "mike" <spamme0(a)go.com> wrote in message
> news:i22qi7$s3s$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>> '83 Honda VT500C Shadow.
>>
>> IN hot weather, the battery goes dry in about 500 miles.
>> To put in water, I have to take off the seat, remove the battery,
>> fill it, reverse the process. PITA.
>>
>> It's my garage sale bike, so it does sit idling a lot while
>> I'm browsing. The battery does get a workout.
>>
>> Anything I can do to reduce the water loss or make it easier to fill?
>> Clever fill gadget? Getting water to it ain't hard. It's telling
>> when to stop adding water that's hard.
>>
>> Regulator is at 14.39V. Well within
>> the 15V max stated in the manual.
>> I'd crank it down a little if I had the option.
>>
>> Ideas?
>> Thanks, mike
>
> You can add a 10 amp diode in series with the charging wire to the battery
> and this will drop the voltage about 7/10th of a volt. Get polarity
> correct of course. WW

And move the regulator's voltage sense wire to the junction of the added
diode's anode and the regulator's output wire, otherwise the regulator will
just compensate for the diode voltage drop (if this causes the regulator to
become erratic, you may have to add an electrolytic capacitor at the same
point as the sense wire).

Seems to me it would make more sense to fix the fault properly rather than
bodge it and hope for the best.

14.4V should be regarded as the absolute max charging voltage, it would be a
good idea to check if it rises above that with the engine held at 5000revs
for a few minutes.

As someone else mentioned, cheap shitty batteries tend to gas off their
electrolyte for no good reason.


From: ian field on

"`" <breoganmacbrath(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be5bb928-7d7b-4342-97ec-d417da2975fb(a)m17g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 20, 4:04 am, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (Pup Tent Peter
Puffer) wrote:
> ` <breoganmacbr...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > How old is the battery? Who was the manufacturer?
>
> <Snip> and Krusty misses the problem again.

Hey, Peter Puffer!

Did ewe ever attend a military technical school that trained you to
troubleshoot and repair aircraft and missile electrical power systems?

I did.

Did ewe ever get paid to work on lead acid batteries full time?

I did.

Did you ever attend a civilian technical school that trained you to
operate high voltage power transmission and distribution systems?

I did.

Have you ever operated gasoline, diesel, steam and gas turbine power
generators?

I did.

Did you ever install a battery in a manned spacecraft?

I did.

------------------

Was that the one that blew up on the launch pad?