Battery Water.
in [Tech]
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From: ian field on 21 Jul 2010 16:09 "`" <breoganmacbrath(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:93fde7a7-f204-49e7-a4b5-86589aaec723(a)p22g2000pre.googlegroups.com... On Jul 21, 8:50 am, Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...(a)aol.com> wrote: The battery water keeps getting boiled off. The guy had a problem with overcharging. You talked about everything else in the world except overcharging and concluded by advising him to buy a new battery. Somebody points out that you missed the problem and rather than fessing up, you talk about everything else but the fact that you missed the overcharging problem. See a pattern here ? Yes, most certainly do see a pattern. How could anybody miss what's been going on in rmt for the last ten years? Neil Murray, the self-styled "Older Gentleman" knows *nothing* about "electrickery" (or physics, either), but he sure does like to *argue*, doesn't he? I stand firmly behind my analysis of battery plate sulfation. No matter how much *water* Mike (the OP) adds to his weakened electrolyte, it will *never* combine with the lead sulfate which covers and penetrates the spongy lead plates of his much abused battery. No matter what technique he uses for replenishing the boiled-off water, it's just going to keep on boiling off, relocation of the "kelvin link" or not. -------------------------------------- Its next to impossible to get any current to flow through a sulphated battery, so its doudtful he could get the electrolyte to gas away to any significant degree - let alone boil. If its overcharging to the extent that significant amounts of electrolyte are gassed away there's rather less chance of it being sulphated.
From: ian field on 21 Jul 2010 16:35 "`" <breoganmacbrath(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:68441285-5041-4e05-840c-19e80542e3d5(a)y21g2000pro.googlegroups.com... On Jul 21, 12:34 pm, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (Denser Than Dessicated Camel Dung) wrote: > That'll be a whoosh then. "Whoosh" is an apt description of the sound that issues from a well worn anal sphincter. ----------------------------- Ill take your word for that.
From: Rob Kleinschmidt on 22 Jul 2010 12:07 On Jul 21, 11:03 am, "`" <breoganmacbr...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jul 21, 8:50 am, Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...(a)aol.com> wrote: > The battery water keeps getting boiled off. > > The guy had a problem with overcharging. > > You talked about everything else in the world except > overcharging and concluded by advising him to buy > a new battery. > Neil Murray, the self-styled "Older Gentleman" knows *nothing* about > "electrickery" (or physics, either), but he sure does like to *argue*, > doesn't he? > > I stand firmly behind my analysis of battery plate sulfation. > > No matter how much *water* Mike (the OP) adds to his weakened > electrolyte, it will *never* combine with the lead sulfate which > covers and penetrates the spongy lead plates of his much abused > battery. Sulfation typically results from undercharging and can often be remedied by deliberate overcharging. A monthly overcharge to clean up sulfation is a recommended practice for lead/acid based photovoltaic storage systems. If he's boiling off fluid to the point where he has to add water every 500 miles, he's almost certainly overcharging. If he were dealing with sulfation, he'd have starting problems. No mention of any problem other than loss of water. Note too that in a followup posting, the OP mentions that fiddling with the sense line to the regulator has dropped the voltage, which in all likelihood will reduce the water consumption. I don't normally want a charging voltage over 14V, regardless of the 15V limit mentioned in the OP's manual. I understand that you stand firmly behind your misdiagnosis.
From: The Older Gentleman on 22 Jul 2010 16:14 Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216128(a)aol.com> wrote: > I don't normally want a charging voltage over 14V, regardless > of the 15V limit mentioned in the OP's manual. Nor I. Something like 13.5v at higher revs is fine for me. -- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Triumph Street Triple Honda CB400F Suzuki TS250 Suzuki GN250 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom Nothing damages a machine more than an ignoramus with a manual, a can-do attitude and a set of cheap tools
From: ` on 22 Jul 2010 16:31
On Jul 22, 9:07 am, Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...(a)aol.com> wrote: > Sulfation typically results from undercharging and can > often be remedied by deliberate overcharging. Questions: 1) What do you think is happening if the OP lets his engine run at idle speed with the headlight on, overcharging or undercharging? My answer: the battery is undercharged. 2) How does a PM alternator manage to raise charging system voltage above battery voltage if it is always connected to the battery through diodes? My answer: PM alternators are "clamped" to battery voltage and cannot raise the voltage any higher than the electrochemistry allows. > A monthly overcharge to clean up sulfation is a recommended practice > for lead/acid based photovoltaic storage systems. Yes, higher than normal charging voltage *will* penetrate the sulfation. > If he's boiling off fluid to the point where he has to add > water every 500 miles, he's almost certainly overcharging. "Overcharging" suggests that the battery voltage will indicate a higher peak voltage than the normal 14.2 ~ 14.5 volts immediately after being disconnected from a charger (or the PM alternator stops turning). The OP has not, AIR, ever told this NG what his voltage readings were at that point, or half an hour afterwards. > If he were dealing with sulfation, he'd have starting problems. > No mention of any problem other than loss of water. The OP said that he rides in hot weather, and motorcycle engines are easy to start in warmer weather. > Note too that in a followup posting, the OP mentions that > fiddling with the sense line to the regulator has dropped the > voltage, which in all likelihood will reduce the water consumption. Actually, this little discussion of "kelvin links" offers the possibility of external adjustment for solid state rectifier regulators by adding a low resistance in the sensing line. Back when I was a flightline electrical specialist, we had a standing maintenance practice of lowering the voltage regulator settings on our aircraft from 28.0 volts to 27.5 volts to reduce water consumption in the summer. But it was as simple as turning a thumbwheel attached to a rheostat on the carbon stack voltage regulator. > I don't normally want a charging voltage over 14V, regardless > of the 15V limit mentioned in the OP's manual. Depends on whether you have a flooded cell lead acid battery or a maintenance free battery which requires slightly higher charging voltage. |