Battery Water.
in [Tech]
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From: mike on 19 Jul 2010 20:27 '83 Honda VT500C Shadow. IN hot weather, the battery goes dry in about 500 miles. To put in water, I have to take off the seat, remove the battery, fill it, reverse the process. PITA. It's my garage sale bike, so it does sit idling a lot while I'm browsing. The battery does get a workout. Anything I can do to reduce the water loss or make it easier to fill? Clever fill gadget? Getting water to it ain't hard. It's telling when to stop adding water that's hard. Regulator is at 14.39V. Well within the 15V max stated in the manual. I'd crank it down a little if I had the option. Ideas? Thanks, mike
From: Mark Olson on 19 Jul 2010 20:38 mike wrote: > '83 Honda VT500C Shadow. > > IN hot weather, the battery goes dry in about 500 miles. > To put in water, I have to take off the seat, remove the battery, > fill it, reverse the process. PITA. > > It's my garage sale bike, so it does sit idling a lot while > I'm browsing. The battery does get a workout. There's absolutely no reason to leave your bike running while you spend time at garage sales. But that is irrelevant to the problem you describe, other than it may expose your battery to unnecessary amounts of heat. > Anything I can do to reduce the water loss or make it easier to fill? > Clever fill gadget? Getting water to it ain't hard. It's telling > when to stop adding water that's hard. You're trying to fix the wrong problem. > Regulator is at 14.39V. Well within > the 15V max stated in the manual. > I'd crank it down a little if I had the option. The battery is being overcharged. Either the regulator is defective or the sense line (common on Hondas) is sensing the wrong voltage, causing the regulator to set the output voltage of the alternator too high. Fix the connection problem(s) or replace the regulator. Simply replacing the regulator won't fix the problem if it's a connection issue. I've seen this exact problem on at least two early 80s Hondas and fixed them both the same way. The problem is that the Kelvin sense wire goes through the ignition switch, which has a fair amount of voltage drop through multiple connections on an older bike with oxidized connections. So the regulator sense line is seeing about 1V less than what the battery sees. The fix is to either clean and/or replace all the tired connections or re-route the sense line directly to the battery. If you choose the latter option you need to ensure the sense line doesn't draw excess current with the bike not running or it can drain the battery quickly. In both cases I verified this with a sensitive milliammeter before committing to the fix.
From: ` on 19 Jul 2010 22:51 On Jul 19, 5:27 pm, mike <spam...(a)go.com> wrote: > IN hot weather, the battery goes dry in about 500 miles. How hot are you talking about? Anything over 120 degrees in the battery area is deadly to lead acid batteries. > It's my garage sale bike, so it does sit idling a lot while > I'm browsing. The battery does get a workout. How old is the battery? Who was the manufacturer? The best quality flooded cell lead acid MC battery is the Yuasa Sulf- Stop model. It has chemistry that attempts to prevent the lead plates from getting plugged up with sulfur when the battery is discharged. And that's what you're doing if you let your engine idle while you shop at the yard sales. Lead acid batteries are not filled with pure sulfuric acid, the electrolyte is about 50% water. When you add water to a battery which is low on water, and run a current through the battery, it will mix with the sulfur and make more electrolyte. But if the sulfur has plated out on the lead plates, it just isn't available to mix with the water. So the electric current going through the battery just boils the water off. > Anything I can do to reduce the water loss or make it easier to fill? > Clever fill gadget? If you have a *small* hydrometer (the floating ball type looks like a small turkey baster but dorsn't hold much fluid), attach a piece of 1/4 inch tubing to the nipple end. Punch a small hole crossways in the tubing about 3/8th of an inch from the end. Fill this device up with distilled water, put the tube into the battery filler hole and squeeze the rubber bulb. When you pump excess water from this device into the battery and overfill it slightly, it will suck the extra water (and some of the acid!) back out of the battery when you let go of the bulb. > Getting water to it ain't hard. It's telling when to stop adding water that's hard. That's why batteries were made with clear plastic cases for many years. It's harder to tell what the electrolyte level is with the translucent cases manufacturers have been using > Ideas? Your best bet is to buy a sealed maintenance free battery. And quit idling the engine so much.
From: WW on 20 Jul 2010 00:47 "mike" <spamme0(a)go.com> wrote in message news:i22qi7$s3s$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > '83 Honda VT500C Shadow. > > IN hot weather, the battery goes dry in about 500 miles. > To put in water, I have to take off the seat, remove the battery, > fill it, reverse the process. PITA. > > It's my garage sale bike, so it does sit idling a lot while > I'm browsing. The battery does get a workout. > > Anything I can do to reduce the water loss or make it easier to fill? > Clever fill gadget? Getting water to it ain't hard. It's telling > when to stop adding water that's hard. > > Regulator is at 14.39V. Well within > the 15V max stated in the manual. > I'd crank it down a little if I had the option. > > Ideas? > Thanks, mike You can add a 10 amp diode in series with the charging wire to the battery and this will drop the voltage about 7/10th of a volt. Get polarity correct of course. WW
From: mike on 20 Jul 2010 02:38
Mark Olson wrote: > mike wrote: >> '83 Honda VT500C Shadow. >> >> IN hot weather, the battery goes dry in about 500 miles. >> To put in water, I have to take off the seat, remove the battery, >> fill it, reverse the process. PITA. >> >> It's my garage sale bike, so it does sit idling a lot while >> I'm browsing. The battery does get a workout. > > There's absolutely no reason to leave your bike running while > you spend time at garage sales. Sounds like you haven't done the math. Start a bike 50 times a day and something that was designed to last for many years doesn't last nearly that long. But that is irrelevant to > the problem you describe, other than it may expose your battery > to unnecessary amounts of heat. > >> Anything I can do to reduce the water loss or make it easier to fill? >> Clever fill gadget? Getting water to it ain't hard. It's telling >> when to stop adding water that's hard. > > You're trying to fix the wrong problem. > >> Regulator is at 14.39V. Well within >> the 15V max stated in the manual. >> I'd crank it down a little if I had the option. > > The battery is being overcharged. Either the regulator is > defective or the sense line (common on Hondas) is sensing > the wrong voltage, causing the regulator to set the output > voltage of the alternator too high. Fix the connection > problem(s) or replace the regulator. Simply replacing the > regulator won't fix the problem if it's a connection issue. > > I've seen this exact problem on at least two early 80s > Hondas and fixed them both the same way. Good call. Rerouting the sense line did drop the voltage. Should know in a week if it fixes it. All I gotta do is remember to charge it a few times over the winter. My jaw is getting tired from all the bubble gum I'm chewing to keep this thing patched up. If I could find a 500cc water-cooled, shaft-drive bike, I'd buy a new one. they don't make 'em like they used to. thanks, mike The problem is that > the Kelvin sense wire goes through the ignition switch, which > has a fair amount of voltage drop through multiple connections > on an older bike with oxidized connections. So the regulator sense > line is seeing about 1V less than what the battery sees. The > fix is to either clean and/or replace all the tired connections > or re-route the sense line directly to the battery. If you > choose the latter option you need to ensure the sense line > doesn't draw excess current with the bike not running or it > can drain the battery quickly. In both cases I verified this > with a sensitive milliammeter before committing to the fix. > > |