From: atec7 7 ""atec77 " on 9 Apr 2010 20:32
> On Apr 9, 4:39 am, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 09 Apr 2010 00:09:27 +1000
>> atec7 7 <""> wrote:
>>> Noisy pipes can save lives
>>> did you notice todays in the news was some bloke who didn't see xing
>>> lights and got hit by a train ?
>>> I don't like loud bikes either but a louder train might have been
>>> heard and a louder bike might stop some retard in a 4door doing a right
>>> turn in front of a motorcycle
>> Don't do much country riding? Trains have very loud horns and they
>> use them when coming to a crossing.
> They are required to use the horn at every crossing (in WA anyway)
> even if the crossing has lights, bells and boom gates. People still
> get run over.
Sposed to in Qld but it doesn't happen due to epa complaints , and
people still get hit
From: Milton on 9 Apr 2010 20:53
"Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 09 Apr 2010 00:09:27 +1000
> atec7 7 <""> wrote:
>> Noisy pipes can save lives
>> did you notice todays in the news was some bloke who didn't see xing
>> lights and got hit by a train ?
>> I don't like loud bikes either but a louder train might have been
>> heard and a louder bike might stop some retard in a 4door doing a right
>> turn in front of a motorcycle
> Don't do much country riding? Trains have very loud horns and they
> use them when coming to a crossing.
> And as for pipes... when the human ear inside a car can precisely
> locate a fire engine or ambulance by the sound of the siren and the
> owner of the ear is guaranteed to do the right thing, then I'll
> believe that.
> As someone who has ridden the same bike in the same commute with and
> without a loud pipe on it, the idea that it is some kind of secondary
> safety is rubbish.
> And telling people it might help is just encouraging them to stop
> using the safety device between their ears. No passive safety device
> is worth anything at all. Only your brains and paying enough
> attention will stop you getting splatted.
Yep, absolutely correct.
From: Nev.. on 9 Apr 2010 22:11
On 10/04/2010 10:09 AM, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 9 Apr 2010 23:50:26 +0000 (UTC)
> BT Humble<YnRAaHVtYmxldG93bi5vcmc=(a)REGISTERED_USER_usenet.com.au> wrote:
>> theo wrote:
>>> On Apr 9, 4:39?am, Zebee Johnstone<zeb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Don't do much country riding? ?Trains have very loud horns and they
>>>> use them when coming to a crossing.
>>> They are required to use the horn at every crossing (in WA anyway)
>>> even if the crossing has lights, bells and boom gates. People still
>>> get run over.
>> Yeah well, people are idiots.
> What they are is doing what they've always done. Habit is an amazing
> Hands up those who have been thinking about something else and found
> themselves having taken the turn that sets them on the road to work
> when they weren't meant to be going that way?
> One of the big problems with rural crossings is that trains don't
> often cross them. You can be a local crossing the track 5 times a day
> or once a week, and no train. Eventually your brain says "no train"
> even if there is one...
There was a particularly well known family out Gippsland way many, many
years ago, who had a train running through their property. My father
told me the story years ago so I have probably messed up the facts but
there were multiple fatalities in the same family, on the same track
crossing, in separate incidents, I cant remember if it was two or three.
Even knowing that a family member had died in that very place didn't
help the subsequent driver(s) to see the train coming.
There was an interesting documentary on TV a few months ago on a similar
topic. They were talking about the customs people scanning luggage at
airports, and how their detection rate was quite low, extraordinarily
low in fact, in spotting the exact items which they were looking for.
(refer to the recent case of police chief who went through several
airport security scans before the ammunition magazine in his case was
detected for an example).
The problem it seems was that the items they're looking to find, come
through so irregularly, that their brain doesn't see them, because it's
looking for an unknown, rather than a known. As you say, if you don't
see something often enough, when you do see it, you still won't see it.
The customs employees might look at the xray of 500,000 bags before
one comes along with a gun inside, and by then their brain is expecting
that there will be no gun inside, just like the other 499,999 bags.
They found that if the xray machine operators spent the first few
minutes of each day by scanning bags which did contain contraband, then
their brains would see it more easily later in the day, and their
detection rates increased by magnitudes.
From: Zebee Johnstone on 9 Apr 2010 22:13
In aus.motorcycles on Sat, 10 Apr 2010 10:52:16 +1000
Milton <millame23(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> It has always been my policy not to use right indicators on a bike but a
> hand signal instead for the reason, too many accidentally leave there right
> indicator on and when approaching an intersection with an oncoming right
> turning vehicle, of course they are assuming you are turning right as well
> and progress around the corner in front of you.
Problem with that is that there can be timing problems as to when you
get your hand back on the throttle to get around the corner.
You need to keep your hand out long enough to be clear to all,
including the bod coming the other way who has been distracted, and
yet brake and turn correctly.
I use hand signals when I think clearances are tight as the motion
attracts attention. So if there's someone close behind me, or
someone coming the other way and I expect I won't need to stop but I
think they need to know I'm turning (so they don't speed up to get the
lights...) then I'll use the hand signal.
I'll often use a signal - left or right - when turning isn't common,
some roundabouts and some other choke points.
I'll also not assume someone's turning till I see their front wheels
start to turn.
From: Zebee Johnstone on 9 Apr 2010 22:27
In aus.motorcycles on Sat, 10 Apr 2010 12:11:49 +1000
Nev.. <idiot(a)mindless.com> wrote:
> The problem it seems was that the items they're looking to find, come
> through so irregularly, that their brain doesn't see them, because it's
> looking for an unknown, rather than a known. As you say, if you don't
> see something often enough, when you do see it, you still won't see it.
Yup. Seen it in action on the roads twice. Once was me, once was a
car I was a passenger in.
Both at the same intersection oddly enough... it was a shortcut we (my
housemate and I) took to get to the main road. Quiet suburban street,
take that shortcut daily and never see a car at the times we were
Well... one day I was on the bike coming up to that give way sign,
casually looked both ways and suddenly the brakes went on!
I wondered what happened and *then* I noticed the car.
I had not consciously noticed it but I had "seen" it. My subconscious
had seen it, processed it as threat, and applied the brakes. My
conscious mind must have filtered it out and so I didn't "see" it.
If I'd been a car driver I wouldn't have "seen" it either way because
another car is not a threat. As a rider any car is a threat, so the
hindbrain takes over.
The other time I was a passenget in my housemate's car. A bright
yellow Escort panel van with its headlights on was coming up on the
left. He didn't see it, I did. I expected him to stop, as he'd
turned his head in its direction, he must have "seen" it. My yell
and the van's horn came at about the same time.
"Where did that come from?" he asked. "It was there all the time" I
Again, he didn't see it because he didn't expect it.
I think I saw it because I *wasn't* driving. And therefore the "only
pay attention to important things" filter wasn't engaged. I was
consciously noting things I wouldn't normally notice.
It's known that the more bicycles there are, the easier they are to
"see". Same same motorcycles. They become things you expect to see,
and so the driving filter doesn't drop them.
One of the best things you can do for your own safety is to encourage
more people to ride motorcycles!