From: Zebee Johnstone on
In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 09 Apr 2010 00:09:27 +1000
atec7 7 <""> wrote:
> Noisy pipes can save lives
> did you notice todays in the news was some bloke who didn't see xing
> lights and got hit by a train ?
> I don't like loud bikes either but a louder train might have been
> heard and a louder bike might stop some retard in a 4door doing a right
> turn in front of a motorcycle

Don't do much country riding? Trains have very loud horns and they
use them when coming to a crossing.

And as for pipes... when the human ear inside a car can precisely
locate a fire engine or ambulance by the sound of the siren and the
owner of the ear is guaranteed to do the right thing, then I'll
believe that.

As someone who has ridden the same bike in the same commute with and
without a loud pipe on it, the idea that it is some kind of secondary
safety is rubbish.

And telling people it might help is just encouraging them to stop
using the safety device between their ears. No passive safety device
is worth anything at all. Only your brains and paying enough
attention will stop you getting splatted.

Zebee
From: Kevin Gleeson on
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:39:40 +0000 (UTC), Zebee Johnstone
<zebeej(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 09 Apr 2010 00:09:27 +1000
>atec7 7 <""> wrote:
>> Noisy pipes can save lives
>> did you notice todays in the news was some bloke who didn't see xing
>> lights and got hit by a train ?
>> I don't like loud bikes either but a louder train might have been
>> heard and a louder bike might stop some retard in a 4door doing a right
>> turn in front of a motorcycle
>
>Don't do much country riding? Trains have very loud horns and they
>use them when coming to a crossing.
>
>And as for pipes... when the human ear inside a car can precisely
>locate a fire engine or ambulance by the sound of the siren and the
>owner of the ear is guaranteed to do the right thing, then I'll
>believe that.
>
>As someone who has ridden the same bike in the same commute with and
>without a loud pipe on it, the idea that it is some kind of secondary
>safety is rubbish.
>
>And telling people it might help is just encouraging them to stop
>using the safety device between their ears. No passive safety device
>is worth anything at all. Only your brains and paying enough
>attention will stop you getting splatted.

Was about to reply to this thread but then noticed Zebee's post and
again she has posted a succinct summation of what I would have said.

The only thing I'd add is that; think of Doppler effect as well, you
only really hear that noisy bike as it passes you, ie by the time it
is way too late. As a safety factor it is total bollocks.

Kev
From: Zebee Johnstone on
In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:13:35 GMT
Kevin Gleeson <kevingleeson(a)imagine-it.com.au> wrote:
>
> The only thing I'd add is that; think of Doppler effect as well, you
> only really hear that noisy bike as it passes you, ie by the time it
> is way too late. As a safety factor it is total bollocks.
>

Same same properly adjusted headlight in daylight conditions in the
city. You can see them far away, but when it's close enough to
matter they make no difference, catch no attention, give no
information.

If someone turning across you worries you, then use the design of the
human visual system: jink in your lane so you change from a small
oncoming that doesn't change size much and so looks still to a
laterally moving item that the visual system is designed to notice.

Of course that means you have to be paying attention to the car in
question to realise it is there and might do the wrong thing. It's
way easier to deafen yourself with loud pipes and then say it is all
someone else's fault.

Zebee
From: George W Frost on

"Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnhrsj0v.2qbe.zebeej(a)gmail.com...
> In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:13:35 GMT
> Kevin Gleeson <kevingleeson(a)imagine-it.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> The only thing I'd add is that; think of Doppler effect as well, you
>> only really hear that noisy bike as it passes you, ie by the time it
>> is way too late. As a safety factor it is total bollocks.
>>
>
> Same same properly adjusted headlight in daylight conditions in the
> city. You can see them far away, but when it's close enough to
> matter they make no difference, catch no attention, give no
> information.
>
> If someone turning across you worries you, then use the design of the
> human visual system: jink in your lane so you change from a small
> oncoming that doesn't change size much and so looks still to a
> laterally moving item that the visual system is designed to notice.
>
> Of course that means you have to be paying attention to the car in
> question to realise it is there and might do the wrong thing. It's
> way easier to deafen yourself with loud pipes and then say it is all
> someone else's fault.
>
> Zebee

While I believe in the topic of loud pipes and I can hear a bike coming for
quite a distance away,
I don't think it would have mattered with the bike rider who got killed
yesterday,
Although the copper on the news stated that speed was a factor,
the ute appeared to have done a right hand turn in front of the bike.

Sitting at my computer I hear a bike and I have plenty of time to get to the
window to see which bike it is, haven't got around to recognising the sound
to a particular bike and rider as yet.

Zebee, I can't see this statement of yours as being totally agreeable:

>>It's
> way easier to deafen yourself with loud pipes and then say it is all
> someone else's fault.

Riding a bike with loud pipes would not deafen you, they actually help you
regulate your speed a lot better than having to glance at your speedo or
tacho every few seconds,

then, the other part of that sentence:

>
> Of course that means you have to be paying attention to the car in
> question to realise it is there and might do the wrong thing.

Totally agree, all new riders should have it installed firmly in their
heads, that the other vehicle drivers on the roads are more like an enemy
and you have to be totally aware of them and their possible adverse actions.




From: thefathippy on
On Apr 9, 6:39 am, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 09 Apr 2010 00:09:27 +1000
>
> atec7 7 <""> wrote:
> >   Noisy pipes can save lives
> >   did you notice todays in the news was some bloke who didn't see xing
> > lights and got hit by a train ?
> >   I don't like loud bikes either but a louder train might have been
> > heard and a louder bike might stop some retard in a 4door doing a right
> > turn in front of a motorcycle
>
> Don't do much country riding?  Trains have very loud horns and they
> use them when coming to a crossing.
>
> And as for pipes...  when the human ear inside a car can precisely
> locate a fire engine or ambulance by the sound of the siren and the
> owner of the ear is guaranteed to do the right thing, then I'll
> believe that.
>
> As someone who has ridden the same bike in the same commute with and
> without a loud pipe on it, the idea that it is some kind of secondary
> safety is rubbish.
>
> And telling people it might help is just encouraging them to stop
> using the safety device between their ears.  No passive safety device
> is worth anything at all.  Only your brains and paying enough
> attention will stop you getting splatted.
>
> Zebee

Of course, my response is only based on anecdotal evidence, however, I
have noticed that car drivers have seemed more aware of me when I'm on
a loud bike than when I'm on a quiet bike (my current bikes have
standard exhausts). I've always put it down to what I call the "bikie
phenomenon". Bikies are horrible scary people, and might kill me if I
upset them. Bikies have loud pipes. That bike has loud pipes. The
rider might be a bikie. I'd better watch out for them, so they don't
kill me.

Another thing I've noticed is that drivers sit much closer to my tail
when I'm riding physically smaller bikes - big tough bikies ride big
tough bikes.

Evidence? No. Scientific? No. Something I find interesting? Yes.

All that aside, Zebee's last para is the one that counts.

Tony F

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