Country towns not well
in [Aussie Motorcycles]
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From: Zebee Johnstone on 2 Dec 2008 03:54 In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:43:33 +1100 Iain Chalmers <bigiain(a)mightymedia.com.au> wrote: > In article ><b7f6b85d-a389-4dd8-ad3d-1568e2682b89(a)g17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > JL <jlittler(a)my-deja.com> wrote: > >> <shrug> No economy is truly independent. The more important question >> is about independence of the truly critical areas - food, electricity >> generation, critical manufacturing capacity, critical electrical >> manufacturer. > > Firearms, ammo, tinned food, shovels... > Well, they could maybe resurrect the small arms factory at Lithgow. Do we have any tanneries left to make the overhead belts? Zebee
From: Iain Chalmers on 2 Dec 2008 03:54 In article <b54fa57a-e203-4809-95ad-294afad0c67c(a)y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, JL <jlittler(a)my-deja.com> wrote: > The big danger is we continue the dumbing down of Oz that has been > going on for the last 10 years. If we lose the knowledge we lose the > capability. We need to spend significantly more on both higher > education and trade training (tafe and apprenticeships). The current > situation where we are engaging fewer apprentices than we need and > then have to import them is unsustainable and bloody madness. I dunno how relevant it is to manufacturing, but we've been steadily bleeding smart people to countries where they're employable in their area of expertise and able to use their skills. My circle of friends is largely in IT, but also contains examples of chemistry postgrads/phd's, physicists, microbiologists, sales/marketing, even artists and musicians who've all left Australia to further their careers. Most of them aren't looking to come back. These are largely the smartest people I know. I have no reason to suspect that people who's circle of friends include industrial designers, product designers, manufacturing process experts, materials scientists and the like don't all have similar stories to mine. Assuming for a moment we _do_ want to (and have the capital to) restart an Australian manufacturing industry, do we have the people we need to run it any more? big -- "Everything you love, everything meaningful with depth and history, all passionate authentic experiences will be appropriated, mishandled, watered down, cheapened, repackaged, marketed and sold to the people you hate." Mr Jalopy quoting Hooptyrides (on jalopyjunktown.com)
From: Iain Chalmers on 2 Dec 2008 03:56 In article <slrngj9ttg.l74.zebeej(a)gmail.com>, Zebee Johnstone <zebeej(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:43:33 +1100 > Iain Chalmers <bigiain(a)mightymedia.com.au> wrote: > > In article > ><b7f6b85d-a389-4dd8-ad3d-1568e2682b89(a)g17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > > JL <jlittler(a)my-deja.com> wrote: > > > >> <shrug> No economy is truly independent. The more important question > >> is about independence of the truly critical areas - food, electricity > >> generation, critical manufacturing capacity, critical electrical > >> manufacturer. > > > > Firearms, ammo, tinned food, shovels... > > > > Well, they could maybe resurrect the small arms factory at Lithgow. > Do we have any tanneries left to make the overhead belts? Isn't that the one they turned into a crater trying to make fireworks last year? big -- "Everything you love, everything meaningful with depth and history, all passionate authentic experiences will be appropriated, mishandled, watered down, cheapened, repackaged, marketed and sold to the people you hate." Mr Jalopy quoting Hooptyrides (on jalopyjunktown.com)
From: JL on 2 Dec 2008 04:02 On Dec 2, 7:54 pm, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:43:33 +1100 > > Iain Chalmers <bigi...(a)mightymedia.com.au> wrote: > > In article > ><b7f6b85d-a389-4dd8-ad3d-1568e2682...(a)g17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > > JL <jlitt...(a)my-deja.com> wrote: > > >> <shrug> No economy is truly independent. The more important question > >> is about independence of the truly critical areas - food, electricity > >> generation, critical manufacturing capacity, critical electrical > >> manufacturer. > > > Firearms, ammo, tinned food, shovels... > > Well, they could maybe resurrect the small arms factory at Lithgow. I used to own a .303 made there. > Do we have any tanneries left to make the overhead belts? Yeah we do actually. Last I looked there was one in Gunnedah and one in the upper Hunter (errm Muswellbrook ?) I'm sure they're not the only ones - there's economic advantages to co-locating them with abattoirs - and I know we still do that !! JL
From: Zebee Johnstone on 2 Dec 2008 04:08
In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 2 Dec 2008 00:42:35 -0800 (PST) JL <jlittler(a)my-deja.com> wrote: > On Dec 2, 4:06 pm, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> If excrement encounters airconditioning, you need to be able to make >> things you can no longer easily import. >> >> Oz was able to make weapons and clothing in WW2 and be self sufficient >> in food. There was enough manufacturing capacity that we weren't >> helpless. > > Indeed - that's exactly the best non-monetary reason to subsidise > local manufacturing capacity that exists. Of course the most likely > scenario for a war is one we have a snowball's chance in hell of > winning (although if I'm physically capable I'll be bloody well on the > front line with whatever weapon I can lay my hands on) - which is a > Chinese invasion in about 10-25 years pursuing more land and > resources- it's the only realistic threat we have in the near future > unless Indonesia finds an unexpected pot of gold that would allow them > to finance the venture they'd love to execute but can't afford to. I think the Brisbane Line idea is still viable. There's a whole lot of nothing between Asia and the usable bits of Oz. The Chinese probably have enough naval power and enough boots on the ground to make a good go of taking the North, but holding it and prospering is another matter altogether. On the other hand, if there's a serious amount of fighting and a number of failed states along the freight lanes, we could all be living in the Gulf of Aden... Plenty of pirates already after all. Have them with better kit and training and it could get nasty. > True enough, it's very rare to see it coming. It behoves a nation to > be prepared, and Little-Johnny wasted a lot of money sucking up to the > yanks that could have been better spent building our capacity to > defend (Abrams tanks for fucks sake ? You can't even move the fuckers > around in Oz without breaking a bridge or a road) Not to mention all those expensive fighter planes that can't make it North because they can't carry the fuel, and can't land at the airstrips we have. Maybe we should see if anyone still has any F111s in a cave somewhere? (Cue a quick chorus of the F111 song!) > Mmm. Possible but I suggest unlikely - I think we're more likely to > pay in time than dollars - you can sail from Japan to Oz in under a > year if diesel became prohibitively expensive, how long before sails > (albeit in a high tech format) make a come back ? The only reason we'd > be cut off is war, not cost. Wind and tide won't abate any time > soon. They are already using sails to help freighters on long relatively calm legs, I wonder what the costs will be generally given that the trips to Oz can be ugly for sailing vessels. When would it be cheaper to use mostly sail? War and pirates, and lack of reason to sell here perhaps. > Even in your scenario, we can build manufacturing for most things > reasonably easily and those we don't currently have capability for > like RAM and LCD/plasma screens are relatively high value per Kg - ie > the shipping costs are a relatively small proportion of their value by > weight. I wonder what we do need. Solar panels come to mind, and heavy machinery. But see your point below... > The big danger is we continue the dumbing down of Oz that has been > going on for the last 10 years. If we lose the knowledge we lose the > capability. We need to spend significantly more on both higher > education and trade training (tafe and apprenticeships). The current > situation where we are engaging fewer apprentices than we need and > then have to import them is unsustainable and bloody madness. Yup. The number were cut in the last recession, and when there was plenty of money we just hired "trained" labour. Now there's not the money or the people to train them. I suspect that the only way out is going to be to revamp the apprenticeship system. IN good times the pay's too low, in bad times the profit is too low. One way is, of course, to bring back the big government training workshops. Heaps of tradies got their start in the railways for example. The govt can do the training without the short term profit requirement. I suspect a lot more would be done for the country if this infrastructure money had requirements for apprentice training in trades attached. >> Zebee >> - figuring that crippling import costs will mean a lot more old bikes >> on the road! > > Can't be a bad thing ! Every cloud has a silver lining and all that !! I think of the first GP in 89. Oz had been in a recession for some years, the dollar was low, and you hardly saw a new bike. Of course the bikes that were "old bikes" then were 70s, they'd be "bloody old" now. When I went to the Gp in the mid 90s all there was was brand new bikes. Not even old red bikes never mind bevels! (and few 10yo Hondas either....) Maybe there will be a market in courses on maintaining a bike more than 5 years old in Sydney.... Or maybe not, maybe dealers will have to service old bikes now! Zebee |