Do you beleive these stats on Battery Voltages?
in [Tech]
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From: Bob on 3 Dec 2009 10:02 On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:58:19 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote: |>> It all really "boils" down to the fact that a good M/cycle, UPS, |>> trailer home, "spaciality" battery is costing too much as compared to |>> fit-all car battery, |>> |> Really -- I just spent $130 for a battery for my Jeep, and it wasn't |>even the top-line version. The current battery in the Dungbeetle cost me |>about $50. |> So you have a chinese battery for the Scoot, which I assume you keep on overnight charges as well.....parking on the streets can be a SOB with these batteries. |> Granted, the Jeep still had the OEM battery after 10 years, whereas |>the Dungbeetle (which only charges when moving faster than 10MPH -- |>idling at signals rapidly drags it down to 11V) gets sulfated after a |>year. Usually a starting battery only lasts about 1 year here, but constant charging can give you 2-->3 years and more if they aren't MF and you can replenish through the vent caps. The agms can't take as many discharges as a Wet battery, some conclude 40 discharges of the 900 cca starting lifetimes. Those "agm" Chinese batteries are really difficult to maintain, since they literally have to be on a charger most of the time due to the fact that they are immobilized sulfuric acid, and the sulfur doesn't climb the "plates" to descend upon charging when to the molten vat of the regular/traditional cell. I looked into one of my "agm" and saw it as some white folded foam dry plates...added some water to charge, but that didn't help to this point. Usually agms only have a spoonful of water in the system of white folded foam plates. MF batteries are pretty screwed in the world of parking on the streets with occasional home charging situations, whereas Wet with vented caps, can give you a few more years. All sorts of Dicking around with batteries put you under the "Get-A-Life" category of life.....right, just pay the man for a new recycled of manufacturer's defect one. Wet batts are better for deep discharges, but maybe deep-cycle.marine types may be better, and may be what m-cycle batteries are more like.AGMs and Gel, don't seem to fit the picture of city driving starting batteries. Bob
From: Bob on 18 Dec 2009 23:18 On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:17:38 +0000, Jim Higgins <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: |> |>> |>> **The problem is that I park my M/Cycle on the street's no |>>electrical outlet parking lot, and I can't leave a battery tender/overnight |>>charger on the Maxi-Scooter with the GSyuasa GT9B-4, so I have to upgrade |>>the frequency of "topping up" the battery.** |> |> |>With respect, I suggest that your real problem is that the charging |>system in your motorcycle is defective or else is designed to charge |>wet flooded lead-acid batteries, not sealed/VRLA/AGM types. The |>latter require a more sophisticated charging system and a higher |>charging voltage. |> Well the charging system of the M/Cycle Yamaha Majesty is putting out 14 volts/27.5A at 5,000rpm from the AC magneto (moric), which is deemed fast city driving..... The battery leeches 120 watts from the 2 headlights, and those are on all the time, and everything is ECU/ECM computerized, so if there was a real problem there would be an error code...somewhere..I suppose, then there's the alarm system, which I rarely use because of the 8AMP limit. |> |>> I did buy another $200.00 Can. battery GSYuasa GT9B-4, with no |>>pamphlet, which I concluded is a VRLA Flooded, since it didn't fit the |>>gsyuasa G/YT9B-4 description of a polimion/agm Conventional or CB series |>>Polimion/AGM.... |> |> |>"VRLA Flooded" has no meaning to me. VRLA are starved electrolyte |>designs, not flooded. There are some flooded batteries with special |>positive pressure vent caps containing a catalyst designed to |>recombine any gas produced (with questionable success) and maybe |>someone calls those "VRLA Flooded," but without more explanation the |>term "VRLA FLooded" is so contradictory as to be meaningless. |> The GT9B-4 (battery type) for the Yamaha Majesty Maxi Scooter, is used in a lot of other bikes, but mostly racing bikes/rockets. The GT9B-4 VRLA battery pamphlet I got last time said: INSTRUCTIONS FOR SEALED WET CHARGED STORAGE BATTERY Then it goes on with the regular charge at 12v/.8a for 5-->10hours....nothing explicit there...but the manual has all the constant charging emphasis of 16->17volt variable voltage (current) and the constant charge to 15 volts "not more than 20 hours" and the 1/2 hour let sit then check the open circuit....same stuff. They do emphasize that auto chargers (they may damage the battery) and then constant amperage chargers won't work and may not charge the battery right, whereas they tend to contradict themselves a bit to cover their liability I guess. My Charger a SC1200 Regular/Deep Cycle/AGM-GEL of 2/8/12 volt settings seems to work pretty good as a 3->4 step smart charger. The problem with an auto charger or passive charger, is that they are slower than active constant chargers that TELL the battery what is needed....the passive auto charger is more meticulous. ***So I should set the Charger for GSyuasa G/YT9B-4 AGM, since it says VRLA, but the battery is a virtual brick for some reason, not like the aftermarket AGM ones that have rubber and plastic vent caps anyways.*** |> |>> Yuasa never employ the term AGM, but use Polimion to describe the |>>foam separators as in an AGM.....just making it all more confusing as to |>>whether setting the SC1200a battery charger to AGM/Gel/Marine/Regular/Etc.., |>>so I went with Regular, which is a lower voltage float than the AGM and |>>other float setting ones... |> |> |>You have me at a disadvantage here because despite working for Yuasa |>in the 90s (and others back to 1971) I was never in the motorcycle end |>of the business and don't know motorcycle battery types and sizes. I |>gather, possibly incorrectly, that GT9B-4 is more a standard battery |>SIZE rather than a specific battery made by Yuasa. That said, when I It's a totally Sealed like a BRICK, "Spaciality" Battery GSyuasa (Recent Merger) GT9B-4/YT9B-4/YT9B-BS, are all the same, whereas the cheaper ones are redone AGMs with vent caps, or "wiggly" sealed. |>look at the batteries Yuasa makes for motorcycles (Google search) they |>seem to be exclusively AGM. If this is the case for your GT9B-4 then |>you need to set the charger for AGM, not regular (flooded?). AGM |>batteries require a higher charge voltage than flooded batteries and |>use of the "regular" (flooded?) setting will result in a chronically |>undercharged AGM battery. That would explain why your outboard |>charger is not maintaining your battery. |> They make all kinds of GSyuasa G/YT9B-4 batteries, not all are sealed, but they are all the same size with 12v/8a/115cca...sure they are called AGM, but not on the battery, just in the promo. If you open the vents, ohoh....they are all AGM, with white AGM sponge plates with the rest being air. |>But, bottom line, your motorcycle charging system determines what |>battery type you need to use. If it's designed for AGM, then you need |>to use AGM... and if this is the case, and given the problems you've |>been describing, you probably need to have the charging system looked |>at and repaired/replaced. If it's designed for "regular" batteries - |>which I assume means flooded - then that's the battery type you need |>to use. |> Well I got this battery at a Yamaha Dealer were I ought the Scooter new, and all they said was these batteries don't like a lot of volts, but last year, they called the GT9B-4 a Gel... |>A caveat - I'm not familiar with motorcycles other than the one I |>owned in the late 60s. It had a flooded battery because that's all |>there was at the time. Perhaps none of them use flooded batteries |>these days. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear that. Right, and your auto charger absorbed at 14.5v, and floated at 13.7 at only 12.2volts like a cliplight laser constant amperage charger...when it found a battery that didn't hold on float for 20 hours, it went into full charging mode again.. The chargers haven't changed much, except for a slight finesse in charging differences, much more lights and constant digital LED battery voltage reportage. Most motorcycle batteries are being replaced by agm since the 1980's, but they are getting almost totally phased out, just like the modern car ones....same thing. So I still don't know really know if this GSyuasa GT9B-4 VRLA is a Wet or agm/polimion, since GS does not make a polimion or conventional in the GSyuasa GT9B-4 power/size format...wereas other battery sizes and power, have a selection.... -- Triad Productions-Fantalla�~EZine~ParaNovel National Association of Assault Research (http://tarbitch.balder.prohosting.com/htmlconc. html)
From: Bob on 19 Dec 2009 18:20
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:07:40 +0000, Jim Higgins <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: |> |>>***So I should set the Charger for GSyuasa G/YT9B-4 AGM, since it says VRLA, |>>but the battery is a virtual brick for some reason, not like the aftermarket |>>AGM ones that have rubber and plastic vent caps anyways.*** |> |>A totally sealed brick is almost certainly AGM or equivalent so set |>the charger to AGM. I always thought the super seal, was to emphasize the non-spillable aspect of a WET battery, and sulfuric acid secure enough to pass the transportation i$$ues. I think the AGM concept was to circumvent the transportation i$$ues, whereas the separate bottle or plastic tubes should have done the job... the instructions on the battery emphasis the non-spillable issue, and say the battery is full of acid....so I'm, not too sure about the AGM compliance. Although it can be installed at 45deg angles, the box it came in did say *This Side Up* proly for some other reason or no reason at all. I always pre charge a new battery to a 2 day trickle on the auto-charger..... My battery in the MF VRLA GSyuasa GT9B-4 is not *polimion*, and the AGM setting on the SC1200 auto charger, could overcharge it, as in evaporate the irreplaceable water levels. My charger "pings" up to 15.2volts in all (Reg/Agm/Marine settings) the algorithmic cycle although it can go 17volts for worse batteries, then it drops to 13.2 for 10 minutes, then ping cycles up again... In AGM/Gel mode, it stays at 13.5 for 10 minutes before starting the float algorithm cycle again, as in (Message-ID: <L4OdnVL50YvccYnWnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d(a)earthlink.com>) discusses.. AGMs were not a real good replacement in the RCapacity concept of M/Cycle batteries, due to the over stressing of the alternator's limited (%75) output, and a lot of these batts., say they should be topped up monthly, or the usual 12.5 volts.... Thanx Again Bob |