Dorna-MSMA open the can of worms
in [Racing]
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From: Julian Bond on 11 Feb 2010 04:29 This stuff changes from day to day. But as of today the rules for MotoGP 2012 look like being 1) 800 Prototypes as now - 800cc - 21 litres of fuel - 150Kg - 6 engines per season 2) 1000cc Prototypes - 1000cc - Max 81mm bore - 21 litres of fuel - 150Kg - 6 engines per season 3) 1000cc Production based - 1000cc - Max 81mm bore - 24 litres of fuel - 153Kg - >6 engines per season. Perhaps unlimited. Now 1) and 2) may be the same if all the current and 2011 800cc prototypes have a bore less than 81mm. Anyone know if this is true now? And the can of worms:- What is a production engine? What is a modified production engine? Is it perhaps just the cases that have to be from a WSBK homologated Superbike? And how many is greater than 6 for the engines limit on production based engines? The next iteration of all this is due Feb 17 with a draft rule book. -- Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433 Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat Multigrain For A Unique Taste
From: pablo on 12 Feb 2010 23:04 On Feb 11, 1:29 am, Julian Bond <julian_b...(a)voidstar.com> wrote: > This stuff changes from day to day. But as of today the rules for MotoGP > 2012 look like being > > 1) 800 Prototypes as now > - 800cc > - 21 litres of fuel > - 150Kg > - 6 engines per season > > 2) 1000cc Prototypes > - 1000cc > - Max 81mm bore > - 21 litres of fuel > - 150Kg > - 6 engines per season > > 3) 1000cc Production based > - 1000cc > - Max 81mm bore > - 24 litres of fuel > - 153Kg > - >6 engines per season. Perhaps unlimited. > > Now 1) and 2) may be the same if all the current and 2011 800cc > prototypes have a bore less than 81mm. Anyone know if this is true now? > > And the can of worms:- What is a production engine? What is a modified > production engine? Is it perhaps just the cases that have to be from a > WSBK homologated Superbike? > > And how many is greater than 6 for the engines limit on production based > engines? > > The next iteration of all this is due Feb 17 with a draft rule book. Shouldn't the production based at least get a weight break or something? Is it just to fill the field at much lower cost to make satellite teams even less competitive? :-) ....pablo
From: Julian Bond on 13 Feb 2010 03:23 pablo <pablo(a)simplyhombre.net> Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:04:22 >Shouldn't the production based at least get a weight break or >something? Is it just to fill the field at much lower cost to make >satellite teams even less competitive? :-) +3 Kg and 24 litres instead of 21 litres Seems to suggest that Production based are expected to be inherently more powerful but less efficient. Which is a bit bizarre. Put GP Magnetti Marelli electronics on an Aprilia RSV and it will still be less efficient? I wonder who they are targeting for a production based engine. Aprilia-BMW? And Honda since they were the one that had a spokesperson mentioning tuning a Blade engine as an alternative to building a 1000 prototype. -- Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433 Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat Contains Sulfites
From: Julian Bond on 17 Feb 2010 12:24 Does this make any sense? ------------------ It was confirmed last December that the maximum engine capacity would increase to 1000cc for the start of the 2012 season with a maximum number of four cylinders and a maximum bore width of 81mm, and on Wednesday the GP Commission announced further specifications. These will include a minimum weight of 153kg for bikes over 800cc and 150kg for machines up to 800cc, a maximum number of six engines available for use by each rider, and a fuel tank capacity of 21 litres. There was also an announcement about the exception for private teams, who will have different limitations. These will be that each rider will be able to use 12 engines per season, and with a fuel tank capacity of 24 litres. This new regulations will be further defined by the end of May, with these teams to be referred to as Claiming Rule Teams (CRT). ------------------ So Fiat-Yamaha get a 1000cc-81mm-153Kg-21 litre-6 engines prototype. Tech3 get the same bike but with 24 litres and they're allowed 12 engines? And Gresini can then claim a Tech-3 bike? -- Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433 Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat Un-Balanced Load
From: Mark N on 17 Feb 2010 12:42
Julian Bond wrote: > Does this make any sense? > > ------------------ > It was confirmed last December that the maximum engine capacity would > increase to 1000cc for the start of the 2012 season with a maximum > number of four cylinders and a maximum bore width of 81mm, and on > Wednesday the GP Commission announced further specifications. > > These will include a minimum weight of 153kg for bikes over 800cc and > 150kg for machines up to 800cc, a maximum number of six engines > available for use by each rider, and a fuel tank capacity of 21 litres. > > There was also an announcement about the exception for private teams, > who will have different limitations. These will be that each rider will > be able to use 12 engines per season, and with a fuel tank capacity of > 24 litres. This new regulations will be further defined by the end of > May, with these teams to be referred to as Claiming Rule Teams (CRT). > ------------------ > > So Fiat-Yamaha get a 1000cc-81mm-153Kg-21 litre-6 engines prototype. > Tech3 get the same bike but with 24 litres and they're allowed 12 > engines? And Gresini can then claim a Tech-3 bike? I doubt CRTs will include the factory-supported lease teams, these will be new teams building machines up from production motors and probably aftermarket chassis. I think what they will later define is a separation between the factory participants and the non-factory participants, and teams like Gresini and Tech 3 do/will clearly fall on the factory side, unless they choose to change their approach. The claiming rules will be to there to accomplish what they always are intended to accomplish, to keep spending down. And at those levels there must be the belief that they have to provide some additional advantages to these teams to keep them even marginally competitive. As in being able to keep the worst lease teams in sight for a few laps. The real issue here still would seem to be the inability to define a motor as "production-based" in the rules, because of the FIM-IMS thing. The first run was the bore limitation, and now it looks like claiming is step two. It's the same sort of dance we saw in Moto2. |