Fly By Wire
in [ATVs]
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From: sturd on 3 Feb 2010 14:04 I am Tosk says: > Did you hear the recently released 911 call from the father of a family > of 4 as their car hit the end of the freeway at 120 mph? There is no car made today that will not stop via a strong foot on the brake, no matter what position the throttle is in. It will take longer than normal but you'll stop. Go fast. Take chances. Mike S.
From: PlowBoy on 3 Feb 2010 14:03 If the dumbasses are using potentiometers, like we used to use for joysticks on computers, there is little doubt that cheaper POTS as they are called, soon send signal spikes not long after the first use. Nowdays the "good' computer joysticks (read that as flight controls or simulator wheels) use high quality Optical sensors (like computer mice did before using infrared light (the ones without balls in them) PLUS use a computer sampling circuit board to 'normalize" the output from that before it goes into the receiving device that is supposed to react to the signals. I don't doubt these sampling circuits could be under engineered for autos, heat or stress wise, low voltage overvoltage etc. In gaming, we use fly by wire. so figures they can do it in real life too. off throttle is probably 0 on throttle Full is probably anywhere from 25 to 1028 (or more I'm sure) steppings, the higher the more precise the pedal movement to throttle movement reaction would be. problem could be (my whole post is somewhat speculation) that, like we have in "simulations or Gaming" is that the older junker controller "spikes". This is the untechnical term that errant data is presented to the receiving unit... thus at anywhere except FULL throttle movement is sending a signal that the other end of the device that applies throttle, sees as FULLthrottle. this was a terrible problem for many years gaming and Sim racing or flying with (sub 400.00 gaming controllers, and even high end ones have to be replaced). A lot of this was offset a little by slower computer computational times. Meaning the spike might last for say 1/2 second (extremely exaggerating the times so it makes more sense here) but the computer didn't go "check" the input for another 38/60ths of a second and the Spike was normalizing, then it didn't affect as much. I'm not sure how they have dealt with it in cars, I'm sure in jets and such they have a processor that samples the signal many times a second and does calculations based on an average for so many sampling times per second, like an average, plus has to somehow fault tolerance the signal from "what it should be, what it probably is, and what the hell is that?" then sends it to the receiver. I'd bet cars don't have all that built in as robustly. the electronic controls (by wire controls) could & would fail safe some of those days gone by antics we've all had, you know, when that tree grabbed the throttle cable just right as you went by it, that wicked the throttle wide open on you? as it could check so see if it is even valid data to go from half to full in under .002 seconds. Plus the tree wouldn't really directly affect the throttle in a mechanical sense like it did pulling the cable. "Dean H" <dfhyman(a)optonline.net> wrote in message news:46aac756-a1f6-421e-8bcf-0c2281921d11(a)r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... > >> > Would you want a fly by wire throttle on your bike? >> >> Many recent sport bikes are done exactly that way. I think the R1 was >> the first, 2 or 3 years ago. >> >> So, my answer is if that meant I had an R1, yes. >> >> -- >> Charles >> '99 YZ250 > > It is very cool technology that opens up many possibilities but also > opens up new problems. I suppose that once you get to EFI, you're most > of the way there anyway. And the elegance of FBW really shines when > you get to multi-cylinder engines. > > In the case of this mysterious Toyota malfunction that was first the > mats, then certain gas pedals to be fixed with first a shim, then with > a reinforcing rod... there's reasonable speculation that they don't > know what they're really chasing. I suspect that with pedals sending > bad info now and then, they might be suffering one of computing's > oldest snafus; Garbage In - Garbage Out. > > <something about fail-safe and fail-soft...> > > Just making conversation... picturing Tami and Harrell patching > together the system with bobby pins and chewing gum. >
From: PlowBoy on 3 Feb 2010 14:04 Shut the engine off come to mind? I mean least you could save the engine as well. "Dean H" <dfhyman(a)optonline.net> wrote in message news:30303bf3-c8dd-4199-a706-3d64b8463945(a)u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com... On Feb 3, 12:24 pm, I am Tosk <justwaitafrekinmin...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In article <6682aaac-3e39-40b6-a15c-679de7891715 > @b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>, j...(a)sysmatrix.net says... > > > > > > > Did you hear the recently released 911 call from the father of a > > > > family > > > of 4 as their car hit the end of the freeway at 120 mph? It was > > > chilling > > > hearing the pleas' for help and the final screams of his family as > > > they > > > hit the barrier and went over the cliff. I heard it the other day and > > > still shake when I think of it.. > > > The real shame is that the guy, a police officer, was too unfamiliar > > with operating a vehicle to put it into neutral when the throttle > > stuck. That technique is taught in driver's ed in high school. > > Instead, they made a cell phone call. > > > JayC > > Yup, I keep thinking about that. He panicked and killed his whole > family... > > Scotty RMR Wow, Darwin was right!
From: IdaSpode on 3 Feb 2010 14:13 On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:16:48 -0800 (PST), JayC <jwc(a)sysmatrix.net> wrote: >> > Did you hear the recently released 911 call from the father of a family >> of 4 as their car hit the end of the freeway at 120 mph? It was chilling >> hearing the pleas' for help and the final screams of his family as they >> hit the barrier and went over the cliff. I heard it the other day and >> still shake when I think of it.. > >The real shame is that the guy, a police officer, was too unfamiliar >with operating a vehicle to put it into neutral when the throttle >stuck. That technique is taught in driver's ed in high school. >Instead, they made a cell phone call. Then there is that little known accessory called the ignition switch, how hard can it be to turn the key to OFF position? >JayC DJ
From: Tim H on 3 Feb 2010 14:28
On Feb 3, 9:19 am, Dean H <dfhy...(a)optonline.net> wrote: > > > Would you want a fly by wire throttle on your bike? > > > Many recent sport bikes are done exactly that way. I think the R1 was > > the first, 2 or 3 years ago. > > > So, my answer is if that meant I had an R1, yes. > > > -- > > Charles > > '99 YZ250 > > It is very cool technology that opens up many possibilities but also > opens up new problems. I suppose that once you get to EFI, you're most > of the way there anyway. And the elegance of FBW really shines when > you get to multi-cylinder engines. > > In the case of this mysterious Toyota malfunction that was first the > mats, then certain gas pedals to be fixed with first a shim, then with > a reinforcing rod... there's reasonable speculation that they don't > know what they're really chasing. I suspect that with pedals sending > bad info now and then, they might be suffering one of computing's > oldest snafus; Garbage In - Garbage Out. > > <something about fail-safe and fail-soft...> > > Just making conversation... picturing Tami and Harrell patching > together the system with bobby pins and chewing gum. C'mon Dean, you can't fix something that complex with hose clamps. Sheesh. Tim H Trailside repairs designed while-u-wait |