Fuel economy and hybrids
in [Aussie Motorcycles]
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From: theo on 4 Mar 2010 23:44 On Mar 5, 10:33 am, JL <jlitt...(a)my-deja.com> wrote: > On Mar 5, 8:40 am, CrazyCam <Crazy...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > Moike wrote: > > > It may be that the motor isn't capable of recharging the batteries as > > > quickly as they are depleted at cruising speed. Battery range is 50 > > > something kilometers, and IIRC it said it took 5 hrs to recharge on AC > > > power. I can well imagine that about 250 ks is what you get at cruising > > > speed, starting with a full battery, and recharging on the run. > > > That does, indeed, sound like what is happening. > > > I wonder if it was intentional, or if they thought that the vehicle > > would be able to proceed purely under the petrol system's generated > > electricity, and only found out at testing that it wouldn't. > > Possibly, a less cynical reading would be that the form factor clearly > calls it out as a city car and hence they aren't expecting you to take > it on the highway, so you'll be charging it several times per tank of > fuel (given average distance travelled for that sort of car was circa > 40Km per day - IIRC). > > > It would seem that their claimed fuel consumption claim is rather sneaky.... > > not counting the electricity shoved into the batteries before it starts.. > > If you counted the cost of charging the batteries you'd be lucky to > move the consumption rate ie convert $2.50 worth of power spent > charging it into an extra 2litres of fuel consumed for the same range > and I doubt that moves the consumption far On another angle of alleged low-emission vehicles there was a snippet on the news this morning saying that if every household in Oz had a main-charged electric vehicle, we would need to double the number of coal-fired power stations in the country. Another item said that the two new proposed power stations for NSW would emit greenhouse gases equal to the current NSW vehicle fleet. Do we really want coal-powered electric cars? Theo
From: JL on 5 Mar 2010 01:00 On Mar 5, 3:44 pm, theo <theodo...(a)bigpond.com.au> wrote: > On Mar 5, 10:33 am, JL <jlitt...(a)my-deja.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 5, 8:40 am, CrazyCam <Crazy...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > Moike wrote: > > > > It may be that the motor isn't capable of recharging the batteries as > > > > quickly as they are depleted at cruising speed. Battery range is 50 > > > > something kilometers, and IIRC it said it took 5 hrs to recharge on AC > > > > power. I can well imagine that about 250 ks is what you get at cruising > > > > speed, starting with a full battery, and recharging on the run. > > > > That does, indeed, sound like what is happening. > > > > I wonder if it was intentional, or if they thought that the vehicle > > > would be able to proceed purely under the petrol system's generated > > > electricity, and only found out at testing that it wouldn't. > > > Possibly, a less cynical reading would be that the form factor clearly > > calls it out as a city car and hence they aren't expecting you to take > > it on the highway, so you'll be charging it several times per tank of > > fuel (given average distance travelled for that sort of car was circa > > 40Km per day - IIRC). > > > > It would seem that their claimed fuel consumption claim is rather sneaky.... > > > not counting the electricity shoved into the batteries before it starts. > > > If you counted the cost of charging the batteries you'd be lucky to > > move the consumption rate ie convert $2.50 worth of power spent > > charging it into an extra 2litres of fuel consumed for the same range > > and I doubt that moves the consumption far > > On another angle of alleged low-emission vehicles there was a snippet > on the news this morning saying that if every household in Oz had a > main-charged electric vehicle, we would need to double the number of > coal-fired power stations in the country. Another item said that the > two new proposed power stations for NSW would emit greenhouse gases > equal to the current NSW vehicle fleet. > > Do we really want coal-powered electric cars? I'd prefer nuclear powered electric cars and shut down the coal powered stations, thanks. JL
From: George W Frost on 5 Mar 2010 01:27 "JL" <jlittler(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message news:b77b1b10-4939-46c2-8f9d-cc36f2e522c4(a)v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com... On Mar 5, 3:44 pm, theo <theodo...(a)bigpond.com.au> wrote: > On Mar 5, 10:33 am, JL <jlitt...(a)my-deja.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 5, 8:40 am, CrazyCam <Crazy...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > Moike wrote: > > > > It may be that the motor isn't capable of recharging the batteries > > > > as > > > > quickly as they are depleted at cruising speed. Battery range is 50 > > > > something kilometers, and IIRC it said it took 5 hrs to recharge on > > > > AC > > > > power. I can well imagine that about 250 ks is what you get at > > > > cruising > > > > speed, starting with a full battery, and recharging on the run. > > > > That does, indeed, sound like what is happening. > > > > I wonder if it was intentional, or if they thought that the vehicle > > > would be able to proceed purely under the petrol system's generated > > > electricity, and only found out at testing that it wouldn't. > > > Possibly, a less cynical reading would be that the form factor clearly > > calls it out as a city car and hence they aren't expecting you to take > > it on the highway, so you'll be charging it several times per tank of > > fuel (given average distance travelled for that sort of car was circa > > 40Km per day - IIRC). > > > > It would seem that their claimed fuel consumption claim is rather > > > sneaky.... > > > not counting the electricity shoved into the batteries before it > > > starts. > > > If you counted the cost of charging the batteries you'd be lucky to > > move the consumption rate ie convert $2.50 worth of power spent > > charging it into an extra 2litres of fuel consumed for the same range > > and I doubt that moves the consumption far > > On another angle of alleged low-emission vehicles there was a snippet > on the news this morning saying that if every household in Oz had a > main-charged electric vehicle, we would need to double the number of > coal-fired power stations in the country. Another item said that the > two new proposed power stations for NSW would emit greenhouse gases > equal to the current NSW vehicle fleet. > > Do we really want coal-powered electric cars? I'd prefer nuclear powered electric cars and shut down the coal powered stations, thanks. JL ******************* I am with Mister Littlejohn on this issue
From: Moike on 5 Mar 2010 06:46 theo wrote: > On Mar 5, 10:33 am, JL <jlitt...(a)my-deja.com> wrote: >> On Mar 5, 8:40 am, CrazyCam <Crazy...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>> Moike wrote: > >>>> It may be that the motor isn't capable of recharging the batteries as >>>> quickly as they are depleted at cruising speed. Battery range is 50 >>>> something kilometers, and IIRC it said it took 5 hrs to recharge on AC >>>> power. I can well imagine that about 250 ks is what you get at cruising >>>> speed, starting with a full battery, and recharging on the run. >>> That does, indeed, sound like what is happening. >>> I wonder if it was intentional, or if they thought that the vehicle >>> would be able to proceed purely under the petrol system's generated >>> electricity, and only found out at testing that it wouldn't. >> Possibly, a less cynical reading would be that the form factor clearly >> calls it out as a city car and hence they aren't expecting you to take >> it on the highway, so you'll be charging it several times per tank of >> fuel (given average distance travelled for that sort of car was circa >> 40Km per day - IIRC). >> >>> It would seem that their claimed fuel consumption claim is rather sneaky.... >>> not counting the electricity shoved into the batteries before it starts. >> If you counted the cost of charging the batteries you'd be lucky to >> move the consumption rate ie convert $2.50 worth of power spent >> charging it into an extra 2litres of fuel consumed for the same range >> and I doubt that moves the consumption far > > On another angle of alleged low-emission vehicles there was a snippet > on the news this morning saying that if every household in Oz had a > main-charged electric vehicle, we would need to double the number of > coal-fired power stations in the country. Another item said that the > two new proposed power stations for NSW would emit greenhouse gases > equal to the current NSW vehicle fleet. > > Do we really want coal-powered electric cars? > > Theo There was a nice bit on RN last week about a proposal to use electric cars as a distributed storage system to even out variations in green power supply. Vehicles with big batteries (35KWh was mentioned) that can dump power back into the grid on demand. differential rates make it an earner for the car owner, and on-board management systems could allow the owner to ensure the car always has enough charge when required. Distributed syorage would put lower stresses on the grid and allow generation to occur at closer to optimal rates. transript: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/scienceshow/stories/2010/2831527.htm#transcript Moike
From: Kevin Gleeson on 5 Mar 2010 17:45
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:46:27 +1100, Moike <bmwmoike(a)gmail.com> wrote: >theo wrote: >> On Mar 5, 10:33 am, JL <jlitt...(a)my-deja.com> wrote: >>> On Mar 5, 8:40 am, CrazyCam <Crazy...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>>> Moike wrote: >> >>>>> It may be that the motor isn't capable of recharging the batteries as >>>>> quickly as they are depleted at cruising speed. Battery range is 50 >>>>> something kilometers, and IIRC it said it took 5 hrs to recharge on AC >>>>> power. I can well imagine that about 250 ks is what you get at cruising >>>>> speed, starting with a full battery, and recharging on the run. >>>> That does, indeed, sound like what is happening. >>>> I wonder if it was intentional, or if they thought that the vehicle >>>> would be able to proceed purely under the petrol system's generated >>>> electricity, and only found out at testing that it wouldn't. >>> Possibly, a less cynical reading would be that the form factor clearly >>> calls it out as a city car and hence they aren't expecting you to take >>> it on the highway, so you'll be charging it several times per tank of >>> fuel (given average distance travelled for that sort of car was circa >>> 40Km per day - IIRC). >>> >>>> It would seem that their claimed fuel consumption claim is rather sneaky.... >>>> not counting the electricity shoved into the batteries before it starts. >>> If you counted the cost of charging the batteries you'd be lucky to >>> move the consumption rate ie convert $2.50 worth of power spent >>> charging it into an extra 2litres of fuel consumed for the same range >>> and I doubt that moves the consumption far >> >> On another angle of alleged low-emission vehicles there was a snippet >> on the news this morning saying that if every household in Oz had a >> main-charged electric vehicle, we would need to double the number of >> coal-fired power stations in the country. Another item said that the >> two new proposed power stations for NSW would emit greenhouse gases >> equal to the current NSW vehicle fleet. >> >> Do we really want coal-powered electric cars? >> >> Theo >There was a nice bit on RN last week about a proposal to use electric >cars as a distributed storage system to even out variations in green >power supply. Vehicles with big batteries (35KWh was mentioned) that can >dump power back into the grid on demand. differential rates make it an >earner for the car owner, and on-board management systems could allow >the owner to ensure the car always has enough charge when required. > >Distributed syorage would put lower stresses on the grid and allow >generation to occur at closer to optimal rates. > >transript: >http://www.abc.net.au/rn/scienceshow/stories/2010/2831527.htm#transcript Yeah - I was listening to that when it went to air. The concept of being able to tell your car whether you knew you only needed to travel 20km the next day to and from work and therefore the car could dump power back into the grid, or altenatively you knew you had a long trip and you grabbed full power down is a nice concept. We still need to get this power generated cleanly though. Cold fusion anyone? Or maybe a good Timex clock mechanism? Kev |