Guzzi question re E10
in [Aussie Motorcycles]
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From: Andrew McKenna on 13 Aug 2010 01:36 F Murtz wrote: > Andrew McKenna wrote: >> Jordan wrote: >>> >>> Anybody know why any machine can or cannot use ethanol blended fuel? >>> >>> Jordan >> >> As G-S has already posted: >> >> http://www.fcai.com.au/publications/all/all/all/3/can-my-vehicle-operate-on-ethanol-blend-petrol >> >> >> >> and scroll down to the bottom. >> > > > And how does the alcohol affect some plastic tanks? Ethanol eats fibreglass, and sections of uncatalysed resin are particularly vulnerable. The dissolved plastic is then fed into your injectors. This from a American boating web site, summarising problems with ethanol: ' # Ethanol can break down resins and fillers in fiberglass gas tanks, causing them to leak. # Resins leached from fiberglass tanks can go through the fuel system, sticking to valves and other internal engine parts. These deposits have caused bent pushrods and have clogged intake valves. # The alcohol attracts water, leading to increased corrosion in metal gas tanks. # Water in the fuel affects the octane and leads to knocking and decreased performance. # Ethanol acts as an efficient solvent, gradually cleaning out the accumulated gunk in fuel tanks and lines, and clogging carburetors. # Certain rubber gaskets and fuel lines are weakened by ethanol. ' -- Regards Andrew
From: Nev.. on 13 Aug 2010 04:06 On 13/08/2010 10:04 AM, Andrew McKenna wrote: > Nev.. wrote: >> On 12/08/2010 9:54 PM, G-S wrote: >>> On 12/08/10 9:39 PM, Nev.. wrote: >>>> On 12/08/2010 10:41 AM, Andrew McKenna wrote: >>>> >>>>> All of the Japanese manufacturers say their bikes can't run on E10. >>>> >>>> All the evidence I have seen, (ie owners manuals on every Japanese bike >>>> I have owned in the past 10 years), is that the Japanese manufactures >>>> say their bikes CAN run on E10. >>>> >>>> Nev.. >>>> '08 DL1000K8 >>> >>> Kawasaki Australia strongly recommend not using it and the FCAI have >>> this list. >>> >>> http://www.fcai.com.au/publications/all/all/all/3/can-my-vehicle-operate-on-ethanol-blend-petrol- >>> >> >> Honda CBR1100XX owner manual Page 28 "Do not use petrol that contains >> more than 10% ethanol". >> >> Kawasaki ZX12R owners manual Page 39 "Never use "gasohol" with more >> than 10% ethanol". >> >> Suzuki DL1000 owners manual Page 3-2 "Blends of Gasoline/Ethanol may >> be used as long as the percentage of ethanol does not exceed 10%". >> >> My anecdotal evidence of specific statements from the manufacturers >> beats your webpage with non-specific sweeping generalisations... and >> that was a 100% hit rate on just the 3 bikes I checked. >> >> Nev.. >> '08 DL1000K8 > > Kawasaki Z750 2008 Owner's Manual Page 43: 'Your Kawasaki engine is > designed to use only unleaded gasoline with a minimum octane rating of > RON 91.' Doesn't mention ethanol at all. > > The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries solicited advice from the > major vehicle manufacturers selling in Australia as to the suitability > of E5 and E10 fuel for their products. All of the Japanese motorcycle > manufacturers said that E10 was unsuitable, as was E5. The FCAI > dutifully reported the results in the link G-S posted, which has a > publication date of 1 June 2006. > > This document from Kawasaki: > > http://www.kawasaki.com.au/kawpublic_docs/faqs.pdf > > says: 'WARNING: Kawasaki strongly advises that you do not use unleaded > fuel blended with any ethanol content in Kawasaki engines.' > > Suzuki has this to say: > > ' Even though newer Suzukis are engineered to reasonably tolerate use of > ethanol blended fuels as may be outlined in the Owner�s Manual, because > it may potentially impact the proper performance of your motorcycle, > Suzuki Australia does not recommend its use. ' > > I think my up-to-date advice from the manufacturer's mouth beats your > out-of-date User's Manual hollow. Your original statment "All of the Japanese manufacturers say their bikes can't run on E10". Your evidence does not support your assertion. My 2008 Suzuki owner manual clearly states that mixes up to E10 are ok. So what is the net benefit for Suzuki to write that? It would have cost them exactly the same to write "Never ever use ethanol blends". If they had the slightest inkling that E10 could cause harm which may result in a warranty claim against them they would have stated outright "NO Ethanol". Nev.. '08 DL1000K8
From: Jordan on 13 Aug 2010 04:08 Andrew McKenna wrote: > > http://www.fcai.com.au/publications/all/all/all/3/can-my-vehicle-operate-on-ethanol-blend-petrol > > > and scroll down to the bottom. > Thanks. It's interesting that all the problems are about ethanol not being compatible with fuel tanks and lines, vapour lock and emissions. Nothing mentioned about possible problems with its behaviour when burning in the cylinder. That's good at least. Jordan
From: Jordan on 13 Aug 2010 04:10 Andrew McKenna wrote: > > # Water in the fuel affects the octane and leads to knocking and > decreased performance. > Water injection is sometimes used on supercharged engines, to prevent knocking I thought. Jordan
From: theo on 13 Aug 2010 06:08
On Aug 12, 8:47 pm, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 12 Aug 2010 03:00:10 -0700 (PDT) > > theo <theodo...(a)bigpond.com.au> wrote: > > > My Norge definitely prefers 98 and runs better and further on it than > > on 95. It really doesn't like 91 at all. > > Ditto. The owner's manual says 95 is the minimum. > > It also prefers BP Ultimate to Mobil or Shell. Yes, that is my experience also. Theo |