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From: Andrew McKenna on 13 Aug 2010 06:46
Nev.. wrote:
> On 13/08/2010 10:04 AM, Andrew McKenna wrote:
>> Nev.. wrote:
>>> On 12/08/2010 9:54 PM, G-S wrote:
>>>> On 12/08/10 9:39 PM, Nev.. wrote:
>>>>> On 12/08/2010 10:41 AM, Andrew McKenna wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> All of the Japanese manufacturers say their bikes can't run on E10.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the evidence I have seen, (ie owners manuals on every Japanese
>>>>> bike
>>>>> I have owned in the past 10 years), is that the Japanese manufactures
>>>>> say their bikes CAN run on E10.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nev..
>>>>> '08 DL1000K8
>>>>
>>>> Kawasaki Australia strongly recommend not using it and the FCAI have
>>>> this list.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.fcai.com.au/publications/all/all/all/3/can-my-vehicle-operate-on-ethanol-blend-petrol-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Honda CBR1100XX owner manual Page 28 "Do not use petrol that contains
>>> more than 10% ethanol".
>>>
>>> Kawasaki ZX12R owners manual Page 39 "Never use "gasohol" with more
>>> than 10% ethanol".
>>>
>>> Suzuki DL1000 owners manual Page 3-2 "Blends of Gasoline/Ethanol may
>>> be used as long as the percentage of ethanol does not exceed 10%".
>>>
>>> My anecdotal evidence of specific statements from the manufacturers
>>> beats your webpage with non-specific sweeping generalisations... and
>>> that was a 100% hit rate on just the 3 bikes I checked.
>>>
>>> Nev..
>>> '08 DL1000K8
>>
>> Kawasaki Z750 2008 Owner's Manual Page 43: 'Your Kawasaki engine is
>> designed to use only unleaded gasoline with a minimum octane rating of
>> RON 91.' Doesn't mention ethanol at all.
>>
>> The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries solicited advice from the
>> major vehicle manufacturers selling in Australia as to the suitability
>> of E5 and E10 fuel for their products. All of the Japanese motorcycle
>> manufacturers said that E10 was unsuitable, as was E5. The FCAI
>> dutifully reported the results in the link G-S posted, which has a
>> publication date of 1 June 2006.
>>
>> This document from Kawasaki:
>>
>> http://www.kawasaki.com.au/kawpublic_docs/faqs.pdf
>>
>> says: 'WARNING: Kawasaki strongly advises that you do not use unleaded
>> fuel blended with any ethanol content in Kawasaki engines.'
>>
>> Suzuki has this to say:
>>
>> ' Even though newer Suzukis are engineered to reasonably tolerate use of
>> ethanol blended fuels as may be outlined in the Owner�s Manual, because
>> it may potentially impact the proper performance of your motorcycle,
>> Suzuki Australia does not recommend its use. '
>>
>> I think my up-to-date advice from the manufacturer's mouth beats your
>> out-of-date User's Manual hollow.
>
> Your original statment "All of the Japanese manufacturers say their
> bikes can't run on E10". Your evidence does not support your assertion.
>
> My 2008 Suzuki owner manual clearly states that mixes up to E10 are ok.
> So what is the net benefit for Suzuki to write that? It would have
> cost them exactly the same to write "Never ever use ethanol blends". If
> they had the slightest inkling that E10 could cause harm which may
> result in a warranty claim against them they would have stated outright
> "NO Ethanol".
>
> Nev..
> '08 DL1000K8

You're floundering. Suzuki say 'Don't use E10'. Simple as. Kawasaki
ditto. Go right ahead and use it, slowpoke. Good luck.

--
Regards

Andrew
From: TimC on 13 Aug 2010 07:42
On 2010-08-12, Andrew McKenna (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Commenting on your two issues separately:
>
> 1. In NSW there are presently at least 4 different unleaded fuels: 92
> RON, 95 RON, 98 RON and E10. Caltex make a fifth: E85, but I've never
> seen it. 92 RON is to be phased out in 2011, so I suspect the most
> likely combination at a 3-fuel bowser in future would be E10, 95 RON, 98
> RON. Shell E10 is 94 RON, but I have heard that others are lower.

Ethanol increases the RON, so if it ends up at 94[1], it must have
started out life as really crappy fuel. No wonder you're ending up
with 10% less kilometerage.

[1] My R1200GS recommends against using such, but I'm having a hard
time working out whether I can use it at all - the anti knock O2
sensor is documented as being only an (free) "optional extra".

--
TimC
The more I work with computers, the better and better subsistence farming
looks as an alternative. -- David Cameron Staples in the Monastery
From: hippo on 13 Aug 2010 09:22
thefathippy wrote:
>
> On Aug 12, 10:41?am, Andrew McKenna
> <amck*NOSPAM*3047(a)tel*NOSPAM*stra.com> wrote:
> > CrazyCam wrote:
> > > Hi folks,
> >
> > > OK I am still working myself up to a frenzy about getting a Guzzi.
> >
> > > I still love the looks of the V7 Classic, and Angie and I are intending
> > > to take one for a test ride in a couple of weeks time.
> >
> > > I have resigned myself to the fact that I don't actually need stupid
> > > amounts of power (Anyone interested in buying my Street Triple?) but, in
> > > the latest edition of the U.C. mag, someone wrote up a bit about the V7
> > > saying that, and I quote:"Ethanol can NOT be used."
> >
> > > Now, to be sure of not getting an E10 mix seems to limit your choices to
> > > 98 octane, expensive petrol.
> >
> > > Since the V7 isn't actually a fire breathing super powerful monster,
> > > this would appear strange.
> >
> > > Anyone got any ideas or comments about this?
> >
> > > Zebee, G-S ?
> >
> > > ? ? regards,
> > > ? ? ? ? CrazyCam
> >
> > Commenting on your two issues separately:
> >
> > 1. In NSW there are presently at least 4 different unleaded fuels: 92
> > RON, 95 RON, 98 RON and E10. Caltex make a fifth: E85, but I've never
> > seen it. 92 RON is to be phased out in 2011, so I suspect the most
> > likely combination at a 3-fuel bowser in future would be E10, 95 RON, 98
> > RON. Shell E10 is 94 RON, but I have heard that others are lower.
> >
> > 2. I read somewhere (but can't recall where) that all new motor
> > vehicles, including motorcycles, manufactured in the euro zone had to be
> > able to run on either ethanol blended fuel or PULP (95 RON). So the
> > issue isn't whether the Guzzi *needs* PULP, it's whether its fuel system
> > can cope with E10, particularly that fuel's nasty habit of absorbing
> > water - I suspect Moto Guzzi have decided to stick with their old-school
> > fuel systems. All of the Japanese manufacturers say their bikes can't
> > run on E10.
> >
> > --
> > Regards
> >
> > Andrew
>
> Just for info, as it doesn't answer the question, but United sell a
> fifth variety - E10 with 95 octane. Most E10 is rated lower.
>
> Tony F
>
>

and that 95 E10 probably 'is' a cost efective alternative if you can run
it;
typically 1-2c/L more than discount E10 & 1-2c/L less than 91 ULP, but 10
or so c/L LESS than 95 ULP.

It works well for 2 of the 3 cars here and *probably* the Pegaso. I'll
know for sure when I finally get enough time to fix the stupid fuel leak
and get the carbs balanced properly. Postie bikes can't use E10 though.
Cheers

--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
From: hippo on 13 Aug 2010 09:32
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
> In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 12 Aug 2010 03:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
> theo <theodoreb(a)bigpond.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > My Norge definitely prefers 98 and runs better and further on it than
> > on 95. It really doesn't like 91 at all.
> >
>
> Ditto. The owner's manual says 95 is the minimum.
>
> It also prefers BP Ultimate to Mobil or Shell.
>
> Zebee
>
>

For personal choice, so do I.
It's just a pity the closest supplier is about 80Km away....

--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
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