From: Andrew McKenna on 13 Aug 2010 06:46
> On 13/08/2010 10:04 AM, Andrew McKenna wrote:
>> Nev.. wrote:
>>> On 12/08/2010 9:54 PM, G-S wrote:
>>>> On 12/08/10 9:39 PM, Nev.. wrote:
>>>>> On 12/08/2010 10:41 AM, Andrew McKenna wrote:
>>>>>> All of the Japanese manufacturers say their bikes can't run on E10.
>>>>> All the evidence I have seen, (ie owners manuals on every Japanese
>>>>> I have owned in the past 10 years), is that the Japanese manufactures
>>>>> say their bikes CAN run on E10.
>>>>> '08 DL1000K8
>>>> Kawasaki Australia strongly recommend not using it and the FCAI have
>>>> this list.
>>> Honda CBR1100XX owner manual Page 28 "Do not use petrol that contains
>>> more than 10% ethanol".
>>> Kawasaki ZX12R owners manual Page 39 "Never use "gasohol" with more
>>> than 10% ethanol".
>>> Suzuki DL1000 owners manual Page 3-2 "Blends of Gasoline/Ethanol may
>>> be used as long as the percentage of ethanol does not exceed 10%".
>>> My anecdotal evidence of specific statements from the manufacturers
>>> beats your webpage with non-specific sweeping generalisations... and
>>> that was a 100% hit rate on just the 3 bikes I checked.
>>> '08 DL1000K8
>> Kawasaki Z750 2008 Owner's Manual Page 43: 'Your Kawasaki engine is
>> designed to use only unleaded gasoline with a minimum octane rating of
>> RON 91.' Doesn't mention ethanol at all.
>> The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries solicited advice from the
>> major vehicle manufacturers selling in Australia as to the suitability
>> of E5 and E10 fuel for their products. All of the Japanese motorcycle
>> manufacturers said that E10 was unsuitable, as was E5. The FCAI
>> dutifully reported the results in the link G-S posted, which has a
>> publication date of 1 June 2006.
>> This document from Kawasaki:
>> says: 'WARNING: Kawasaki strongly advises that you do not use unleaded
>> fuel blended with any ethanol content in Kawasaki engines.'
>> Suzuki has this to say:
>> ' Even though newer Suzukis are engineered to reasonably tolerate use of
>> ethanol blended fuels as may be outlined in the Owner�s Manual, because
>> it may potentially impact the proper performance of your motorcycle,
>> Suzuki Australia does not recommend its use. '
>> I think my up-to-date advice from the manufacturer's mouth beats your
>> out-of-date User's Manual hollow.
> Your original statment "All of the Japanese manufacturers say their
> bikes can't run on E10". Your evidence does not support your assertion.
> My 2008 Suzuki owner manual clearly states that mixes up to E10 are ok.
> So what is the net benefit for Suzuki to write that? It would have
> cost them exactly the same to write "Never ever use ethanol blends". If
> they had the slightest inkling that E10 could cause harm which may
> result in a warranty claim against them they would have stated outright
> "NO Ethanol".
> '08 DL1000K8
You're floundering. Suzuki say 'Don't use E10'. Simple as. Kawasaki
ditto. Go right ahead and use it, slowpoke. Good luck.
From: TimC on 13 Aug 2010 07:42
On 2010-08-12, Andrew McKenna (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Commenting on your two issues separately:
> 1. In NSW there are presently at least 4 different unleaded fuels: 92
> RON, 95 RON, 98 RON and E10. Caltex make a fifth: E85, but I've never
> seen it. 92 RON is to be phased out in 2011, so I suspect the most
> likely combination at a 3-fuel bowser in future would be E10, 95 RON, 98
> RON. Shell E10 is 94 RON, but I have heard that others are lower.
Ethanol increases the RON, so if it ends up at 94, it must have
started out life as really crappy fuel. No wonder you're ending up
with 10% less kilometerage.
 My R1200GS recommends against using such, but I'm having a hard
time working out whether I can use it at all - the anti knock O2
sensor is documented as being only an (free) "optional extra".
The more I work with computers, the better and better subsistence farming
looks as an alternative. -- David Cameron Staples in the Monastery
From: hippo on 13 Aug 2010 09:22
> On Aug 12, 10:41?am, Andrew McKenna
> <amck*NOSPAM*3047(a)tel*NOSPAM*stra.com> wrote:
> > CrazyCam wrote:
> > > Hi folks,
> > > OK I am still working myself up to a frenzy about getting a Guzzi.
> > > I still love the looks of the V7 Classic, and Angie and I are intending
> > > to take one for a test ride in a couple of weeks time.
> > > I have resigned myself to the fact that I don't actually need stupid
> > > amounts of power (Anyone interested in buying my Street Triple?) but, in
> > > the latest edition of the U.C. mag, someone wrote up a bit about the V7
> > > saying that, and I quote:"Ethanol can NOT be used."
> > > Now, to be sure of not getting an E10 mix seems to limit your choices to
> > > 98 octane, expensive petrol.
> > > Since the V7 isn't actually a fire breathing super powerful monster,
> > > this would appear strange.
> > > Anyone got any ideas or comments about this?
> > > Zebee, G-S ?
> > > ? ? regards,
> > > ? ? ? ? CrazyCam
> > Commenting on your two issues separately:
> > 1. In NSW there are presently at least 4 different unleaded fuels: 92
> > RON, 95 RON, 98 RON and E10. Caltex make a fifth: E85, but I've never
> > seen it. 92 RON is to be phased out in 2011, so I suspect the most
> > likely combination at a 3-fuel bowser in future would be E10, 95 RON, 98
> > RON. Shell E10 is 94 RON, but I have heard that others are lower.
> > 2. I read somewhere (but can't recall where) that all new motor
> > vehicles, including motorcycles, manufactured in the euro zone had to be
> > able to run on either ethanol blended fuel or PULP (95 RON). So the
> > issue isn't whether the Guzzi *needs* PULP, it's whether its fuel system
> > can cope with E10, particularly that fuel's nasty habit of absorbing
> > water - I suspect Moto Guzzi have decided to stick with their old-school
> > fuel systems. All of the Japanese manufacturers say their bikes can't
> > run on E10.
> > --
> > Regards
> > Andrew
> Just for info, as it doesn't answer the question, but United sell a
> fifth variety - E10 with 95 octane. Most E10 is rated lower.
> Tony F
and that 95 E10 probably 'is' a cost efective alternative if you can run
typically 1-2c/L more than discount E10 & 1-2c/L less than 91 ULP, but 10
or so c/L LESS than 95 ULP.
It works well for 2 of the 3 cars here and *probably* the Pegaso. I'll
know for sure when I finally get enough time to fix the stupid fuel leak
and get the carbs balanced properly. Postie bikes can't use E10 though.
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
From: hippo on 13 Aug 2010 09:32
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 12 Aug 2010 03:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
> theo <theodoreb(a)bigpond.com.au> wrote:
> > My Norge definitely prefers 98 and runs better and further on it than
> > on 95. It really doesn't like 91 at all.
> Ditto. The owner's manual says 95 is the minimum.
> It also prefers BP Ultimate to Mobil or Shell.
For personal choice, so do I.
It's just a pity the closest supplier is about 80Km away....
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