Hadron Collider
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From: Peter on 6 Apr 2010 14:48 > Or it has been on a dyno In a wind tunnel. :-P
From: Kevin Gleeson on 6 Apr 2010 17:41 On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:07:16 GMT, "George W Frost" <georgewfrost(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >"Nev.." <idiot(a)mindless.com> wrote in message >news:zbKdnf5TJ-wWhibWnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d(a)westnet.com.au... >> George W Frost wrote: >>> "Peter" <someone(a)microsoft.com> wrote in message >>> news:Xns9D51584826131someonemicrosoftcom(a)69.16.185.247... >>>> I found this video interesting and thought a lot of the lingo would >>>> attract >>>> you lot... :-) >>>> >>>> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e00_1270407720 >>>> >>>> :-P >>> >>> Really interesting to listen to and get an idea on what they are doing >>> and where they are going. >>> So far, the budget for this is $US9 BILLION >>> >>> and what have they done so far ? >> >> Got much better value for money so far than the US got from their attempt >> at building one. In Texas about ten years ago, they had spent about a >> billion dollars half constructing something similar. The legislators then >> decided it was costing too much and ordered it to be dismantled. The >> irony being that the decommisioning cost as much as it would have cost to >> complete the collider. >> >> Ya know George, just because you can't see a net benefit doesn't mean >> there isn't one, it just means you don't understand what it is. > > >I am a realist Nev, I have to see the benefits before I can believe in >something >You tell me that your bike will go as fast as 275 kph >I will believe you when I see the specification sheet that someone has gone >that fast on it >Or it has been on a dyno > >Otherwise, you can tell me or anyone else, that your bike can go 475 kph >But, without specific proof, there is no credibility > >Same as this Hadron Collider, >Show me what it does, >That is SHOW me, NOT tell me >, then I will believe it >otherwise, it is jobs for the boys and a big money waster. I think I am probably on a losing streak here, but anyway . . . To use your analogy George, where do you think the 275 kp/h bike came from? There wasn't someone waking up one morning and thinking "ooh, I'll go and build a superbike that can triple the speed limit". Without research behind it, that often may have turned into dead-ends, then you simply could not do it. Our society is built on thousands of years of people pushing those boundaries and seeing what happens. OK, not all work. And the ones that do or don't work often spawn something that was not intended in the first place. Again, the LHC could (and yes it is only "could") unlock an energy source that could power this puny little planet for the future. Or it might find something that we can't even dream of at the moment. Why are you railing against the cost of this? Get stuck into the amount of money spent on weaponry every day. I reckon it would take less than a week to pay for the LHC if we cancelled all military contracts. Bargain basement price I reckon. Kev
From: me here on 6 Apr 2010 17:37 Kevin Gleeson wrote: > On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:07:16 GMT, "George W Frost" > <georgewfrost(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >"Nev.." <idiot(a)mindless.com> wrote in message > > news:zbKdnf5TJ-wWhibWnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d(a)westnet.com.au... > >> George W Frost wrote: > >>> "Peter" <someone(a)microsoft.com> wrote in message > >>> news:Xns9D51584826131someonemicrosoftcom(a)69.16.185.247... > >>>> I found this video interesting and thought a lot of the lingo > would >>>> attract > >>>> you lot... :-) > > > > > > >>>> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e00_1270407720 > > > > > > >>>> :-P > > > > > >>> Really interesting to listen to and get an idea on what they are > doing >>> and where they are going. > >>> So far, the budget for this is $US9 BILLION > > > > > >>> and what have they done so far ? > > > > >> Got much better value for money so far than the US got from their > attempt >> at building one. In Texas about ten years ago, they had > spent about a >> billion dollars half constructing something similar. > The legislators then >> decided it was costing too much and ordered > it to be dismantled. The >> irony being that the decommisioning cost > as much as it would have cost to >> complete the collider. > > > > >> Ya know George, just because you can't see a net benefit doesn't > mean >> there isn't one, it just means you don't understand what it > is. > > > > > > I am a realist Nev, I have to see the benefits before I can believe > > in something > > You tell me that your bike will go as fast as 275 kph > > I will believe you when I see the specification sheet that someone > > has gone that fast on it > > Or it has been on a dyno > > > > Otherwise, you can tell me or anyone else, that your bike can go > > 475 kph But, without specific proof, there is no credibility > > > > Same as this Hadron Collider, > > Show me what it does, > > That is SHOW me, NOT tell me > > , then I will believe it > > otherwise, it is jobs for the boys and a big money waster. > > I think I am probably on a losing streak here, but anyway . . . > > To use your analogy George, where do you think the 275 kp/h bike came > from? > > There wasn't someone waking up one morning and thinking "ooh, I'll go > and build a superbike that can triple the speed limit". > > Without research behind it, that often may have turned into dead-ends, > then you simply could not do it. Our society is built on thousands of > years of people pushing those boundaries and seeing what happens. OK, > not all work. And the ones that do or don't work often spawn something > that was not intended in the first place. > > Again, the LHC could (and yes it is only "could") unlock an energy > source that could power this puny little planet for the future. Or it > might find something that we can't even dream of at the moment. > > Why are you railing against the cost of this? Get stuck into the > amount of money spent on weaponry every day. I reckon it would take > less than a week to pay for the LHC if we cancelled all military > contracts. Bargain basement price I reckon. > > Kev There's still a HUGE amount we don't know about the universe and the world we live in despite what some scientists would have you believe. I remember a survey of scientists done in the last decade where each was asked how much "more" major scientific breakthroughs were to be made regarding the basic structure and elements of our planet and system. It was interesting what came out. I don't have the exact results but from memory a good percentage thought that 90% of the basic stuff was known. However about 30% thought there was much more to find. Now ten years later they are trying to find out what dark matter is - which makes up most of our universe, but can't be detected yet. Just one BIG example of a major building block we dont understand yet was theorised by Einstein years ago. And on top of that we are searching for life on other planets with SETI, but who's to say that other life would even use radio wave based systems. t the end of the day unless you know what your lookig for and how to detect it you can't say what is left to discover. I think that any research is worth the money - provided you can get it.
From: JohnO on 6 Apr 2010 20:21 On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:07:16 GMT, "George W Frost" <georgewfrost(a)gmail.com> wrote: snip some... > > >I am a realist Nev, I have to see the benefits before I can believe in >something >You tell me that your bike will go as fast as 275 kph >I will believe you when I see the specification sheet that someone has gone >that fast on it >Or it has been on a dyno > >Otherwise, you can tell me or anyone else, that your bike can go 475 kph >But, without specific proof, there is no credibility > >Same as this Hadron Collider, >Show me what it does, >That is SHOW me, NOT tell me >, then I will believe it >otherwise, it is jobs for the boys and a big money waster. What about the roads, sewerage... and don't forget the aqueducts! JohnO <the historian> Beer?
From: Diogenes on 6 Apr 2010 20:30
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:07:16 GMT, "George W Frost" <georgewfrost(a)gmail.com> wrote: >I am a realist Nev, I have to see the benefits before I can believe in >something Thats's not being a realist, that's being an ignoramus. >Same as this Hadron Collider, >Show me what it does, >That is SHOW me, NOT tell me >, then I will believe it >otherwise, it is jobs for the boys and a big money waster. I fear that they cannot show you because your are too stupid to see. >Do I detect a bit of anti-war activist in that? You've still not given us the facts necessary to verify that you are the might killer of sarong-wearing Vietcong you claim to be. Using your own logic, I'd have to say "I am a realist George, I have to see the your Discharge Certificate before I can believe you. Show me the certificate. That is SHOW me, NOT tell me, then I will believe it otherwise, you're just a pathetic imposter." Petards at twenty paces anyone? ================= Onya bike Gerry |