Help me diagnose this engine trouble
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From: fran...123 on 1 Feb 2010 13:27 "Tiago" <diariodastrilhas(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:7a2c78b8-4fb1-450a-9081-917788939e0e(a)b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com... > Semi OT, because it is regarding a dual sport, used mostly on street > however. It's a friend's 2001 XLR125, push rod 125cc engine. He rides > trails with it from time to time. snip> > thanks for any insight! > > -- T > I had a cx500 and was in the Honda shop later than 2001 and the guy told me it was the only push rod motorcycle engine Honda ever made. It was a guy who if not in the owners family has been there many years. Strange I don't sees the model you specify in the 2001 bike bandit parts sheet choices. Think I looked pretty hard. I do believe there is a push rod quad in the current lineup. Perhaps the gears that make the noise are towards one end of the shafts could have something to do with it. Though I kind of doubt it, it might be possible that some of the gears are straight and some are helical cut. I am impressed with the mileage you mention. Fran
From: Tiago on 1 Feb 2010 13:57 On Feb 1, 3:27 pm, "fran...123" <storkensteinrem...(a)cox.net> wrote: > I had a cx500 and was in the Honda shop later than 2001 and the guy told me > it was the only push rod motorcycle engine Honda ever made. It was a guy > who if not in the owners family has been there many years. Strange I don't > sees the model you specify in the 2001 bike bandit parts sheet choices. > Think I looked pretty hard. I do believe there is a push rod quad in the > current lineup. Hi Fran! This bike is a brazilian/3rd world model. It's a nice looking bike, imho... http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/1499119/ The Europeans have/had a street bike called Honda CG125 (used to be sold in Brasil until 2008, iirc) that shares the same engine. > Perhaps the gears that make the noise are towards one end of the shafts > could have something to do with it. Though I kind of doubt it, it might be > possible that some of the gears are straight and some are helical cut. I think all gears are straight, I've never seen a honda with helical transmission cogs but I've never split anything bigger than a XL350, this will be the first push rod case split I'll be doing. > I am > impressed with the mileage you mention. Not unusual for these bikes! I've seen bikes like these with more mileage than his, specially the CG (street) version! You'd be amazed. The bike in question is the only transportation for a great friend of mine. He's poor and can't afford a car, or a newer or bigger bike. He said that this is the most he can afford, even if old, he would not be able to pay for gas and maintenance for a bigger bike. I help him out fixing his bike for free... He helps me and learn something about his bike engine everytime. What great friends are for, right? That's why I plan on splitting cases friday in hope it runs by monday, so he can go to work... As a matter of fact, he already paid me with five baby "turken" hens... :) One more question for the more knowledgeable mechanics out there: I've always replaced rings when removing the piston from cylinder. I've been told that when you remove the piston from the cylinder, the old rings would never re-seat and bike would always consume oil and smoke. The rings on this bike were replaced less than one month ago (I did it myself). I told friend that for starters he'd need new rings and a new gasket kit and you should see the look on his eyes. He even hinted that a little smoke would not bother him... Complete gasket kits for this bike are less than USD10 but quality rings are much more expensive than that. Is it really necessary to replace the rings? Service manual don't mention it. If it were me, it would be new rings, no question asked, but as I said, he can't afford... He was evicted from his rented apartment a few weeks ago and facing lots of debt... He want to fix the noise before the engine goes ka-boom and not be possible to fix it anymore. Bike still runs strong for a 10hp machine. Always starts first kick and idle like a swiss clock... -- T
From: PymerOne on 1 Feb 2010 17:10 Dear Tiago, can you put the bike on a support with the rearwheel free from the ground? Or maybe suspend the bike (securely!!!) with some strong ropes. Connect a sound insulating hose to the exhaust to guide away exhaust noices. Start it up, lightly rev and go through the gears. Lightly apply rearbrake to simulate traction (dont burn the brake by doing this for too long). Carefull, spinning wheels may move quite powerfull on speed up&down (just like the trick for adjusting heading while in midflight). Use a screwdriver as a hearing-aid (if need be attach a funnel to it). Sidenote: i once had weird sounds from a bike when a rock was wedged between frame and gastank. Also check heavy parts to see if they secure...like battary and startmotor. Check rearaxle and bearings, swingarm bearings, rearshock. Goodluck and keep us posted ;) Grtz, PymerOne. "Tiago" <diariodastrilhas(a)gmail.com> schreef in bericht news:e35dc5bc-02b7-4574-8258-2465ae5b8782(a)o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com... On Feb 1, 3:27 pm, "fran...123" <storkensteinrem...(a)cox.net> wrote: > I had a cx500 and was in the Honda shop later than 2001 and the guy told > me > it was the only push rod motorcycle engine Honda ever made. It was a guy > who if not in the owners family has been there many years. Strange I don't > sees the model you specify in the 2001 bike bandit parts sheet choices. > Think I looked pretty hard. I do believe there is a push rod quad in the > current lineup. Hi Fran! This bike is a brazilian/3rd world model. It's a nice looking bike, imho... http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/1499119/ The Europeans have/had a street bike called Honda CG125 (used to be sold in Brasil until 2008, iirc) that shares the same engine. > Perhaps the gears that make the noise are towards one end of the shafts > could have something to do with it. Though I kind of doubt it, it might be > possible that some of the gears are straight and some are helical cut. I think all gears are straight, I've never seen a honda with helical transmission cogs but I've never split anything bigger than a XL350, this will be the first push rod case split I'll be doing. > I am > impressed with the mileage you mention. Not unusual for these bikes! I've seen bikes like these with more mileage than his, specially the CG (street) version! You'd be amazed. The bike in question is the only transportation for a great friend of mine. He's poor and can't afford a car, or a newer or bigger bike. He said that this is the most he can afford, even if old, he would not be able to pay for gas and maintenance for a bigger bike. I help him out fixing his bike for free... He helps me and learn something about his bike engine everytime. What great friends are for, right? That's why I plan on splitting cases friday in hope it runs by monday, so he can go to work... As a matter of fact, he already paid me with five baby "turken" hens... :) One more question for the more knowledgeable mechanics out there: I've always replaced rings when removing the piston from cylinder. I've been told that when you remove the piston from the cylinder, the old rings would never re-seat and bike would always consume oil and smoke. The rings on this bike were replaced less than one month ago (I did it myself). I told friend that for starters he'd need new rings and a new gasket kit and you should see the look on his eyes. He even hinted that a little smoke would not bother him... Complete gasket kits for this bike are less than USD10 but quality rings are much more expensive than that. Is it really necessary to replace the rings? Service manual don't mention it. If it were me, it would be new rings, no question asked, but as I said, he can't afford... He was evicted from his rented apartment a few weeks ago and facing lots of debt... He want to fix the noise before the engine goes ka-boom and not be possible to fix it anymore. Bike still runs strong for a 10hp machine. Always starts first kick and idle like a swiss clock... -- T
From: PlowBoy on 3 Feb 2010 10:05 sound like the timing chain. "Tiago" <diariodastrilhas(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:7a2c78b8-4fb1-450a-9081-917788939e0e(a)b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com... > Semi OT, because it is regarding a dual sport, used mostly on street > however. It's a friend's 2001 XLR125, push rod 125cc engine. He rides > trails with it from time to time. > > When in third gear, it makes a gentle rumble, barely noticeable only > on third gear, no matter if engine hot or cold, but the noise is > there, if you know what to listen. Other bikes with same engine does > not make this noise. > > After rode-like-you-stole-it for over half an hour it makes a *loud* > metal rubbing against metal noise. Noise goes away if you calm down > and ride slow with low revs. It never produces the noise if you ride > gently, which is almost impossible on a 10hp engine. > > top end is ok, was rebuilt a few weeks ago. I did that myself (not > that this is a signal of good quality job, but anyway...) > > Main suspects: broken teeth on third gear cog, bent third gear shifter > fork, main bearing spinning on the case. > > No noticeable metal shavings on oil, so I could almost rule out > bearings spinning on the case. > > Has been doing that since it was just over the 1 year warranty period. > Problem is worsening, friend says it's getting scary. Bike has over > 100,000 miles (yes, miles not kilometers) on stock everything except > piston rings and clutch disks and springs. > > Pulling clutch does not change noise, which is worse in third and > fourth gears (5spd transmission) > > I plan on splitting cases next friday night, so I could run for parts > saturday morning and hopefully reassembling it before next monday. > > Anything I might want to look into? I'm aware that noise can't be > diagnosed through written media, but I know some folks here are top > mechanics... :) > > thanks for any insight! > > -- T >
From: Tiago on 3 Feb 2010 10:43
On Feb 3, 12:05 pm, "PlowBoy" <s...(a)yah.com> wrote: > sound like the timing chain. no timing chain; it's push-rod, like a harley davidson, just this is a single piston. -- t |