From: Mark Olson on
Robert Roland wrote:
> On Mon, 17 May 2010 03:45:54 -0500, Mark Olson <olsonm(a)tiny.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> "red to black, and
>> black to red, right?"
>
> If you do it like that at both ends, it's fine.

"the great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from"

From: Bill Gunshannon on
In article <86dbfe3a-24ad-4630-9ec7-7d6f7de2f634(a)42g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216128(a)aol.com> writes:
> On May 15, 10:46�am, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older
> Gentleman) wrote:
>> TigerJ <tsp...(a)talk21.com> wrote:
>> > I think the battery is fine as I have fully charged it and the charger shows
>> > it as being full. �Also, the headlight work fine.
>>
>> It's probably dead even so.
> Agreed.
> Could be a bad connection at ground or battery +, but
> more likely to be the battery. An OK digital multimeter
> can be bought for ~ $25. Buy one and check the battery
> voltage or just lug the battery in to a shop and let them
> test it for you.

Actually, I am following this with interest. I have a Rebel 250
with pretty much the same problem. I know it is n ot the battery as
I bought a new one when it first started happeneing last year. Also,
the problem comes and goes and a dead battery is forever. :-_)
I suspect it is either the starter or a bad connection somewhere
in the guts of the bike and I haven't had the time to tear it appart
to try and find it. (When the weather is good enough to work on the
bike it is also good enough to ride. Guess which one wins every time?)
The only saving grace is being a 250, it doesn't take much to push
start it. I can usually do it without even leaving my parking space. :-)

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
billg999(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
From: bob prohaska's usenet account on
Bill Gunshannon <billg999(a)cs.uofs.edu> wrote:
>
> the problem comes and goes and a dead battery is forever. :-_)
> I suspect it is either the starter or a bad connection somewhere
> in the guts of the bike and I haven't had the time to tear it appart
>
To start with not much disassembly is required. Put a voltmeter at the
positive battery terminal (post, not bolt) and the starter (post, not
lug) and thumb the starter. If nothing shows up, try the ground leg,
engine to negative post. If you're hearing the relay, that's the next
suspect. Of course, if you're not hearing the relay then it's time to
start checking the sidestand switch. Sometimes kill switches disable
the starter, but not always.

Good luck,

bob prohaska
From: paul c on
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> In article <86dbfe3a-24ad-4630-9ec7-7d6f7de2f634(a)42g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216128(a)aol.com> writes:
>> On May 15, 10:46 am, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older
>> Gentleman) wrote:
>>> TigerJ <tsp...(a)talk21.com> wrote:
>>>> I think the battery is fine as I have fully charged it and the charger shows
>>>> it as being full. Also, the headlight work fine.
>>> It's probably dead even so.
>> Agreed.
>> Could be a bad connection at ground or battery +, but
>> more likely to be the battery. An OK digital multimeter
>> can be bought for ~ $25. Buy one and check the battery
>> voltage or just lug the battery in to a shop and let them
>> test it for you.
>
> Actually, I am following this with interest. I have a Rebel 250
> with pretty much the same problem. I know it is n ot the battery as
> I bought a new one when it first started happeneing last year. Also,
> the problem comes and goes and a dead battery is forever. :-_)
> I suspect it is either the starter or a bad connection somewhere
> in the guts of the bike and I haven't had the time to tear it appart
> to try and find it. (When the weather is good enough to work on the
> bike it is also good enough to ride. Guess which one wins every time?)
> The only saving grace is being a 250, it doesn't take much to push
> start it. I can usually do it without even leaving my parking space. :-)
>
> bill
>

A lesson I've re-learned a number of times on bikes and cars: Even a
little six-inch ground strap when the ends are corroded/oxydized or even
thinned due to use might have as much as a quarter-ohm resistance. A
300 watt starter motor has a resistance of less than half an ohm. In
that case, a 12 V battery would lose a third of its voltage, ie., 4 V on
the ground strap, leaving only 8 V max for the starter. Then there is
all the other wire between battery and starter. Just an example, I
don't know what the power of a Rebel 250's starter is and there is more
sophisticated analysis possible that I also don't know how to do, eg.,
more volts are needed to get the starter turning than to keep it
turning. I've heard of lots of batteries being replaced when the
problem was actually poor connections. Oxidation can be hard to see but
is probably there if the surfaces aren't shiny.


Cleaning isn't hard, especially with spray-on contact cleaner and for
helping to keep surfaces clean after re-assembly there is also
conductive grease for the interior contact surfaces and dielectric
grease to help insulate the outsides from moisture, some people don't
bother with the greases, they just use vaseline. Sometimes spade or
bullet connectors are just loose.
From: Bill Gunshannon on
In article <hssup5$kpi$1(a)news.albasani.net>,
bob prohaska's usenet account <bp(a)www.zefox.net> writes:
> Bill Gunshannon <billg999(a)cs.uofs.edu> wrote:
>>
>> the problem comes and goes and a dead battery is forever. :-_)
>> I suspect it is either the starter or a bad connection somewhere
>> in the guts of the bike and I haven't had the time to tear it appart
>>
> To start with not much disassembly is required. Put a voltmeter at the
> positive battery terminal (post, not bolt) and the starter (post, not
> lug) and thumb the starter.

That would require locating and exposing the starter. As I said, if
it is a choice between doing that and riding -- I'm gone....

> If nothing shows up, try the ground leg,
> engine to negative post.

If it were that it wold affect other things as well, like the lights.
It's only the starter and only some of the time.

> If you're hearing the relay, that's the next
> suspect.

I do hear a small "click" which is what makes me think it is either the
starter itself or the power lead connection on the starter.

> Of course, if you're not hearing the relay then it's time to
> start checking the sidestand switch. Sometimes kill switches disable
> the starter, but not always.

But if it were something like that the bike would not start when you
pushed it either as all the various kill switches kill the ignition
as well.

>
> Good luck,

I'll fix it one of these days but in the meantime, I'ld rather ride. ;-)

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
billg999(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>