How to save Harley Davidison
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From: The Older Gentleman on 16 Jul 2010 14:07 Bob Myers <nospamplease(a)address.invalid> wrote: > TOG(a)Toil wrote: > > > > And it's the Japanese that puzzle me more about not making other > > styles of bikes. > > Given that the Japanese (assuming you're talking about the > Big Four) all have pretty broad product lines, esp. in > comparison with other manufacturers who are much more > specialized (H-D, Victory, Ducati, etc.) - how so? > Well, if you go back a few postings, and ignore Calgary getting it wrong with every reply, it's just one engine configuration: the flat twin. Puzzles me why they haven't built one. At least since the Lilac. -- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
From: The Older Gentleman on 16 Jul 2010 14:18 tomorrow(a)erols.com <tomorrowaterolsdotcom(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > HD *is* a small volume producer, really, and yes, BMW, Ducati and > > Triumph are even smaller. Moto Guzzi smaller still It's impossible to > > argue otherwise. > > How do you define "small volume producer," then? > > Anyone who doesn't produce millions of scooters and mopeds? I think anything over half a million units counts as volume in today's world, but ultimately it's pointless trying to establish a yardstick. Millions of scooters and mopeds certainly count - why shouldn't they? -- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
From: don (Calgary) on 16 Jul 2010 14:18 On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:55:39 -0700 (PDT), "TOG(a)Toil" <totallydeadmailbox(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> You are no different than the many Harley haters that have cruised >> through this forum, blind to the facts and stubborn in their opinions. > ><chortle> > >You silly sod. I don't hate Harleys at all. In fact, a browse through >this forum will show several references which I made to the effect >that I might actually *buy* one[1]. And yet your posting record shows you avail yourself of every opportunity to bash the brand.
From: tomorrow on 16 Jul 2010 14:23 On Jul 16, 12:41 pm, Mark Olson <ols...(a)tiny.invalid> wrote: > TOG(a)Toil wrote: > > I'm not the only one who wonders whether depenedence on a single core > > product can be carried on indefinitely, though. I cited Porsche for a > > good reason. > > Since H-D's target demographic seems to be in no danger of drying up, > what would make you think they are in any danger of going under? They > have a loyal following, new potential owners are coming along on a > regular basis, and they have proved now that they can continue to > profitably sell the same type of bike, recycled into various forms, > more or less indefinitely. > > And what about Porsche, what single core product, in your view, were > they overly dependent on? I've read over and over again in the automotive press; that Porsche (back when they were independent) could not survive making "just" sports cars. But Ferrari seems to survive (and prosper, and thrive) doing just that. No one seems to think that being overly dependent on V8 and V10 powered rwd supercars is a bad thing for them! And yet, by the same reasoning that says that Harley *has* to build standards and sport tourers and entry level beginner bikes, etc, Ferrari will not be "successful" until they start building SUVs and sedans and pick-up trucks!
From: tomorrow on 16 Jul 2010 14:35
On Jul 16, 2:18 pm, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) wrote: > tomor...(a)erols.com <tomorrowaterolsdot...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > HD *is* a small volume producer, really, and yes, BMW, Ducati and > > > Triumph are even smaller. Moto Guzzi smaller still It's impossible to > > > argue otherwise. > > > How do you define "small volume producer," then? > > > Anyone who doesn't produce millions of scooters and mopeds? > > I think anything over half a million units counts as volume in today's > world, but ultimately it's pointless trying to establish a yardstick. > > Millions of scooters and mopeds certainly count - why shouldn't they? Because in general, when motorcycle enthusists think about motorcycles, they don't think about mopeds and scooters. And thus Harley, with 40+% of the current total U.S. streetbike market, does not qualify - to most motorcycle enthusiasts - as a "small volume" manufacturer. Neither does BMW or Triumph or Ducati, who have a fraction of the U.S. market share (and a fraction of the worldwide sales) that Harley has. And on the other hand, Kymco produces FAR more 2-wheeled units than Harley-Davidson does, but somehow I don't see that reducing Harley to a "small volume producer" of motorcycles. Maybe it's just a matter of perception and semantics, but when I think about "small volume" motorcycle producers, I think of Moto-Guzzi (today), Boss Hoss, MuZ (until recently) and MV Agusta as examples. |