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From: Charlie on 4 Mar 2010 05:54 On 04/03/2010 10:00, M J Carley wrote: > In the referenced article, Charlie<nospam(a)all.ta> writes: > >> I wonder if, when the time comes, the left-leaning press will be as >> generous about Thatcher's qualities as the right-leaning press have >> been about Foot's. > > Which qualities? Anyway, given that Foot was never Prime Minister, and > so did little damage, any judgement of him will have to be more > generous. He also achieved a lot in other areas: he was an early > opponent of appeasement, a fine polemicist (`Guilty men') and a very > good writer of books worth reading. What did Thatcher do other than > start the slide into the `police state' the right likes to denounce > and make Britain a nastier, meaner place? She had a vision of what she thought was wrong with the country, and she was able to realise much of it. Her policies did put our disastrous national finances straight very quickly, although it was painful at the time. She did expose and correct the industrial torpor brought about by malign union influence on manufacturing and service industries. By privatising telecoms, she enabled that industry to provide a late 20th century service to its customers; how long did it take to get a phone-line installed in the bad old days? Whether you like it or not, the country became markedly more efficient and 'the customer' (which is us) became more important. The determination to retake the Falklands, and the way it was done, did enhance the country's international standing; and, yes, I do know that it was goverment equivocation which made the Argies have a go. Taxation was simplified and reduced. Britain became a far better, brighter, more confident, more efficient, more optimistic, more entrepreneurial and less grey, diffident and cabbage-smelling place to live than it had been. Things worked, and people became less tolerant when they didn't. Not least, she forced the Labour Party to realise that the tedious old mantras were not that appealing to people anymore, and it became more pragmatic and thus electable. The miners' strike was ghastly, of course, but was provoked by Scargill's swivel-eyed intransigence. She did go completely tonto in the late 80s, admittedly, becoming intractable and surrounding herself with yes-men as if she intended to go on forever. If only she'd had the sense to retire after the 1987 election. Instead, we had privatisations gone mad (rail, water), the Poll Tax and so on. Despite the failures, she achieved a great deal and changed the country for the better. I'm not a Tory, but I simply hope that Thatcher's obituaries will be as balanced as Foot's. The 'police state' really started in the late 60s and 70s, as a consequence of fighting the IRA and Provos. CCTV and other elements have grown enthusiastically under the current government. Britain's become a far 'nastier, meaner' place far faster in the last 13 years, in my view. 'The Left's' love of social control has been fully indulged by the growth of the nanny state. It's only in recent years that the assumption of innocence has been replaced with the assumption of guilt. By the way, Champ thought yesterday that Michael Foot might have been the last of the 1945 Parliament intake. It seems that one of them is still alive: http://www.stuartthomson.co.uk/books/biography/freeman/
From: 'Hog on 4 Mar 2010 07:40 Mick Whittingham wrote: > In article > <8a6cd381-4244-493a-9e0a-5755ab0b4dd4(a)c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, > Malc <malwhite(a)blueyonder.co.uk> writes >> On 3 Mar, 13:37, SaladDodger <salad.dod...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> I suppose BBC will be showing endless re-runs of "One Foot in the >>> Grave" now. >> >> >> You! Coat now! >> > > The big problem with the Labour party, is it's creeping metrication. > > Nowadays it's Milli-ban this Milli-ban that. > > You knew where you were with Foot! *snort* -- Hog
From: 'Hog on 4 Mar 2010 07:46 M J Carley wrote: > In the referenced article, "Speedgazebo MOTP #1" > <nickaird(a)gmail.com> writes: >> On 3 Mar, 13:12, Champ <n...(a)champ.org.uk> wrote: >>> Died today, at the age of 96. >>> >>> He was one of the last of the 1945 landslide intake - not sure if >>> there's any others left. >>> >>> Mind you, some responsibility for the formation of the SDP, and >>> Labour's 18 years in the wilderness must be laid at his door. >> >> And still Thatcher lingers on. There is no God. > > I don't know: she's lived long enough to see her buddies go to jail > and her son convicted of a terrorism offence and banned from the US. > Maybe there is a purpose. Deciding Britain didn't need to be a manufacturing trading nation and failing to notice that international trade even as part of the EU requires a considerable degree of nationalism are the worst parts of her legacy. A lot of her other acts need to be taken in the context of the previous 30 years and there were no easy answers. Her death will be about as divisive at P.Diana ;o) -- Hog
From: vulgarandmischevious on 4 Mar 2010 12:44 Champ <news(a)champ.org.uk> wrote: >On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 17:46:58 +0000, steve auvache ><dont_spam(a)thecow.me.uk> wrote: > >>In article <aZva7c2WXmjLJAlU(a)wicked-uncle-nigel.me.uk>, Wicked Uncle >>Nigel <wun(a)wicked-uncle-nigel.me.uk> writes > >>>I trust those attending his funeral will have the good taste and decency >>>to wear donkey-jackets. > >>Duffle coats, you mean duffle coats. If you are going to attempt put >>downs of the thinking classes by innuendo please at least attempt to get >>your facts right. > >Mr Weller informs me it was a "three-quarter wool coat", Which the Queen-Mother had complimented him on that very day.
From: Champ on 4 Mar 2010 13:07
On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:11:48 +0000, Charlie <nospam(a)all.ta> wrote: >On 03/03/2010 22:48, Speedgazebo MOTP #1 wrote: >> On 3 Mar, 13:12, Champ<n...(a)champ.org.uk> wrote: >>> Died today, at the age of 96. >>> >>> He was one of the last of the 1945 landslide intake - not sure if >>> there's any others left. >>> >>> Mind you, some responsibility for the formation of the SDP, and >>> Labour's 18 years in the wilderness must be laid at his door. >> >> And still Thatcher lingers on. There is no God. >I wonder if, when the time comes, the left-leaning press will be as >generous about Thatcher's qualities as the right-leaning press have been >about Foot's. It's been easy for people who disagreed with Foot to be generous about him - he was opposition leader for a few years, not a (very divisive) Prime Minister for 11. -- Champ We declare that the splendor of the world has been enriched by a new beauty: the beauty of speed. ZX10R | Hayabusa | GPz750turbo neal at champ dot org dot uk |