From: Nev.. on
On 30/07/2010 7:38 AM, Moike wrote:
> Marts wrote:
>> Nev.. wrote...
>>
>>>> Don't they have a government authority in NSW that oversees such
>>>> charges? We
>>>> have an Essential Services Commission here in Victoria that
>>>> regulates energy
>>>> prices.
>>>>
>>>> Oh wait, that's not a good example...
>>> Heh. I paid my last electricity bill this week. Sometime in the next
>>> few weeks I get a bi-directional meter installed.
>>
>> Lucky you.
>>
>> Anyway, what happened to the "moratorium" on smart meters (presuming
>> that this
>> bi-directional meter is a smart meter) until after Labor hopes that it
>> will be
>> back in power? (no pun intended).
>>
>> How much is this meter going to cost you?
>>
> I think the 'moratorium' was on the general roll out to all customers.
> It was getting too far behind because of the demand from people
> installing solar panels. We had to wait three months for ours, but we
> were part of the last flurry of people who snuck into the full rebate.
> It should be better by now.

Actually, smart meters and bidirectional meters are two different
things. The moratorium is only on smart meters used for Time of use
metering to existing customers. When you sign up to receive premium
tariffs you would have made a new agreement with your retailer, which
probably includes time of use metering and is not affected by the
moratorium.

Nev..
'08 DL1000K8
From: Lee on
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:09:18 +1000, Nev.. <idiot(a)mindless.com> wrote:

> On 30/07/2010 6:58 AM, Marts wrote:
>>
>> And if we (Victoria) don't get the gross tariff thingy that NSW has, then the
>> standard meter (it's called an induction disc relay) will suffice.
>
> Not so. The system in Victoria (and every other state I think) is Net
> metering. This means you will benefit from surplus electricity
> generated at the premium rate. At this time of year, my house only
> consumes about 1Kw of standby electricity during daylight hours, which
> means that the difference between Gross tariff and Net tariff is only
> 60c per day, presuming the same Premium rate is paid.
> In fact, depending on your usage, the Gross Tariffs can actually be less
> lucrative than the Net system. eg ACT has Gross tariffs but only pays
> 50c/kWhr whereas Vic has Net tariffs but most retailers will pay
> 66c/kWhr. So due to my usage I calculate I will actually receive 20%
> more from my Victorian retailer than I would if I was on the Gross ACT
> PFiT scheme.

just got a 2.5 kw system in NSW

it's a Gross tariff - there are two meters in the box, one for what we use
and one for the total we produce - basically, all the energy from the solar
goes straight onto the grid and we buy back what we use.

This is fine however, because although they put us on time-of-use metering,
the peak rate is 35c/kW/h, and our solar pays *Gross* 60c/kW/h

>
> Smart meters are not used with domestic Solar PV systems.

they are in NSW, at least ours is.
>
> Nev..
> '08 DL1000K8
>


--
Lee
From: Moike on
Nev.. wrote:
> On 30/07/2010 7:34 AM, Moike wrote:
>> Marts wrote:
>>> CrazyCam wrote...
>>>
>>>> When nothing much electrical is running in the house, and the new
>>>> solar panels can see the sun, the disc turns slowly backwards. :-)
>>>>
>>>> We are just waiting on the new, meter to measure input to grid.
>>>
>>> And if we (Victoria) don't get the gross tariff thingy that NSW has,
>>> then the
>>> standard meter (it's called an induction disc relay) will suffice.
>>>
>>> All the meter reader has to do is read the meter. Whatever your solar
>>> "system"
>>> generates will reduce total usage. Of course, if it runs backwards,
>>> then your
>>> last meter reading will be subtracted from the new one, thus probably
>>> giving you
>>> a negative figure if it runs backwards longer than it runs forwards.
>>> This means that you will get a credit for the kw that you export based
>>> on your
>>> current GD tariff.
>>>
>>> But then, when the smartmeters are introduced, god knows, you may have a
>>> recycled 200MW generator salvaged from Hazelwood tacked onto it, and
>>> you'd still
>>> have to pay...
>>>
>> Not quite so.
>>
>> The smart meter keeps separate tallies for electrickery sucked out of
>> the grid and that pumped back in. The latter is credited at about three
>> timed the rate of the former. So during the day, when most stuff in our
>> house is turned off, we are totting up credits at a little over 60c/kwh.
>> Later on, when the flow goes the other way, we pay a tad over 20c (at
>> peak rates). Anything we generate and use directly is just 'free'.
>
> Not quite so. "Smart meters" are only "smart" in the sense that they
> can do time of use billing and not the direction of flow of the current.
> In fact, I have read that standard "smart" meters can only count
> forwards, and not backwards, so they will actually bill you for any
> electricity you generate back into the grid in addition to anything to
> take off of the grid.. in such situations they are not so "smart".
>
> Nev..
> '08 DL1000K8
Who told you that?

If you'd like to pop round and look at mine, it has a neat display that
cycles through a number of readings, including peak kwh imported,
Off-peak kwh imported and kwh exported.

It detects and records the direction of any flow.

What it misses is any electricity that we generate and consume, so that
if the panels are generating 1 kw, and we are using 3kw in the house,
the meter shows 2kw being imported. If we were only using .4 kw, the
meter would record .6 kw being exported.

Moike
From: Nev.. on
On 30/07/2010 8:19 PM, Lee wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:09:18 +1000, Nev.. <idiot(a)mindless.com> wrote:
>
>> On 30/07/2010 6:58 AM, Marts wrote:
>>>
>>> And if we (Victoria) don't get the gross tariff thingy that NSW has,
>>> then the
>>> standard meter (it's called an induction disc relay) will suffice.
>>
>> Not so. The system in Victoria (and every other state I think) is Net
>> metering. This means you will benefit from surplus electricity
>> generated at the premium rate. At this time of year, my house only
>> consumes about 1Kw of standby electricity during daylight hours, which
>> means that the difference between Gross tariff and Net tariff is only
>> 60c per day, presuming the same Premium rate is paid.
>> In fact, depending on your usage, the Gross Tariffs can actually be less
>> lucrative than the Net system. eg ACT has Gross tariffs but only pays
>> 50c/kWhr whereas Vic has Net tariffs but most retailers will pay
>> 66c/kWhr. So due to my usage I calculate I will actually receive 20%
>> more from my Victorian retailer than I would if I was on the Gross ACT
>> PFiT scheme.
>
> just got a 2.5 kw system in NSW
>
> it's a Gross tariff - there are two meters in the box, one for what we use
> and one for the total we produce - basically, all the energy from the solar
> goes straight onto the grid and we buy back what we use.
>
> This is fine however, because although they put us on time-of-use metering,
> the peak rate is 35c/kW/h, and our solar pays *Gross* 60c/kW/h

Yikes. They must make your electricity out of gold. Have a 2.5kw
system also. 24c/kWhr peak here and 66c/kWhr Net

Nev..
'08 DL1000K8
From: Nev.. on
On 30/07/2010 8:56 PM, Moike wrote:
> Nev.. wrote:
>> On 30/07/2010 7:34 AM, Moike wrote:
>>> Marts wrote:
>>>> CrazyCam wrote...
>>>>
>>>>> When nothing much electrical is running in the house, and the new
>>>>> solar panels can see the sun, the disc turns slowly backwards. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> We are just waiting on the new, meter to measure input to grid.
>>>>
>>>> And if we (Victoria) don't get the gross tariff thingy that NSW has,
>>>> then the
>>>> standard meter (it's called an induction disc relay) will suffice.
>>>>
>>>> All the meter reader has to do is read the meter. Whatever your solar
>>>> "system"
>>>> generates will reduce total usage. Of course, if it runs backwards,
>>>> then your
>>>> last meter reading will be subtracted from the new one, thus probably
>>>> giving you
>>>> a negative figure if it runs backwards longer than it runs forwards.
>>>> This means that you will get a credit for the kw that you export based
>>>> on your
>>>> current GD tariff.
>>>>
>>>> But then, when the smartmeters are introduced, god knows, you may
>>>> have a
>>>> recycled 200MW generator salvaged from Hazelwood tacked onto it, and
>>>> you'd still
>>>> have to pay...
>>>>
>>> Not quite so.
>>>
>>> The smart meter keeps separate tallies for electrickery sucked out of
>>> the grid and that pumped back in. The latter is credited at about three
>>> timed the rate of the former. So during the day, when most stuff in our
>>> house is turned off, we are totting up credits at a little over 60c/kwh.
>>> Later on, when the flow goes the other way, we pay a tad over 20c (at
>>> peak rates). Anything we generate and use directly is just 'free'.
>>
>> Not quite so. "Smart meters" are only "smart" in the sense that they
>> can do time of use billing and not the direction of flow of the
>> current. In fact, I have read that standard "smart" meters can only
>> count forwards, and not backwards, so they will actually bill you for
>> any electricity you generate back into the grid in addition to
>> anything to take off of the grid.. in such situations they are not so
>> "smart".
>>
>> Nev..
>> '08 DL1000K8
> Who told you that?
>
> If you'd like to pop round and look at mine, it has a neat display that
> cycles through a number of readings, including peak kwh imported,
> Off-peak kwh imported and kwh exported.
>
> It detects and records the direction of any flow.
>
> What it misses is any electricity that we generate and consume, so that
> if the panels are generating 1 kw, and we are using 3kw in the house,
> the meter shows 2kw being imported. If we were only using .4 kw, the
> meter would record .6 kw being exported.

Yeah, that's a "bi-directional meter". As I understand it, they are
completely different to the "smart meter" rollout to which Marts was
referring. The "smart meter" is a single meter which will allow the
retailer to bill you a different tariff at different times of the day.

Nev..
'08 DL1000K8
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