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From: G-S on 26 Apr 2010 17:15 JL wrote: > On Apr 26, 6:22 pm, G-S <ge...(a)castbus.com.au> wrote: >> JL wrote: >>> On Apr 24, 10:15 am, Lars Chance <lars.cha...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> Kevin Gleeson wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 11:42:40 GMT, Lars Chance >>>>> <lars.cha...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Kevin Gleeson wrote: >>>>>>> Along these lines, I had to go down to Kent St in Sydney CBD the other >>>>>>> day to pick up a security pass for another one of our buildings. >>>>>>> Coming back I crossed Kent St after checking for traffic and saw none >>>>>>> so wandered over the road. It is a quiet little street and there are >>>>>>> road works going on so cars are avoiding it as it is bottlenecked. As >>>>>>> I nearly got to the other side of the street a bicycle screamed past >>>>>>> me and abused me for not looking. He was flying. Way faster than I'd >>>>>>> drive any car or motorcycle through there. Estimate he may have been >>>>>>> doing 60 kph. He nearly hit me. I felt the wind from him as he went >>>>>>> past. (snip) >>>>>> So you admit you were 100% in the wrong and you probably caused the >>>>>> subsequent crash (after the *law abiding* cyclist had to avoid the >>>>>> jaywalking non-attention-paying obstacle) yet you still try and put the >>>>>> blame on *him*!! >>>>>> You belong in aus.cars Kev! >>>>> I was not in the wrong. I was crossing a clear street. This guy was >>>>> traveling way too fast for the conditions. >>>> If the guy was travelling on it, it wasn't clear was it? >>>> >> There were bollards around >>>>> the road, I had checked the road (I've managed to cross roads for >>>>> nearly 50 years now and survive so think I have got an idea how to do >>>>> it without accident). HE was totally out of an appropriate zone. He >>>>> went on the inside of me and the footpath on the other side of the >>>>> road just as I was about to reach the other side. >>>> He was on the road obeying the rules (including the speed-limit), you >>>> were crossing illegally. >>>> He saw you, you didn't see him. >>>> He swerved and avoided you (while on the roadway) yet you maintain HE >>>> was in the wrong!! >>> Logic failure. Regardless of any illegality Kev may or may not have >>> made, the requirement to give way to pedestrians who have a green walk >>> signal is absolute, and not relieved by any other negligence. >>> JL >> However if the pedestrian walks when the pedestrian walk signal is red >> the situation IS different and the driver isn't automatically at fault. > > Are yer sure G-S ? > > JL > (noting also that the road rules aren't truly unified yet so there may > be NSW / Vic differences still) There is (or at least was) a defence specifically relating to pedestrians crossing when the pedestrian marker was red in Victoria. I'm somewhat familiar with this because I guy I knew hit a person who walked out on the red and she died. Not up on the details and the guy is now in Darwin, not sure how I'd check the court records... G-S
From: Kevin Gleeson on 26 Apr 2010 17:54 On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 07:15:23 +1000, G-S <geoff(a)castbus.com.au> wrote: >JL wrote: >> On Apr 26, 6:22 pm, G-S <ge...(a)castbus.com.au> wrote: >>> JL wrote: >>>> On Apr 24, 10:15 am, Lars Chance <lars.cha...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Kevin Gleeson wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 11:42:40 GMT, Lars Chance >>>>>> <lars.cha...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> Kevin Gleeson wrote: >>>>>>>> Along these lines, I had to go down to Kent St in Sydney CBD the other >>>>>>>> day to pick up a security pass for another one of our buildings. >>>>>>>> Coming back I crossed Kent St after checking for traffic and saw none >>>>>>>> so wandered over the road. It is a quiet little street and there are >>>>>>>> road works going on so cars are avoiding it as it is bottlenecked. As >>>>>>>> I nearly got to the other side of the street a bicycle screamed past >>>>>>>> me and abused me for not looking. He was flying. Way faster than I'd >>>>>>>> drive any car or motorcycle through there. Estimate he may have been >>>>>>>> doing 60 kph. He nearly hit me. I felt the wind from him as he went >>>>>>>> past. (snip) >>>>>>> So you admit you were 100% in the wrong and you probably caused the >>>>>>> subsequent crash (after the *law abiding* cyclist had to avoid the >>>>>>> jaywalking non-attention-paying obstacle) yet you still try and put the >>>>>>> blame on *him*!! >>>>>>> You belong in aus.cars Kev! >>>>>> I was not in the wrong. I was crossing a clear street. This guy was >>>>>> traveling way too fast for the conditions. >>>>> If the guy was travelling on it, it wasn't clear was it? >>>>> >> There were bollards around >>>>>> the road, I had checked the road (I've managed to cross roads for >>>>>> nearly 50 years now and survive so think I have got an idea how to do >>>>>> it without accident). HE was totally out of an appropriate zone. He >>>>>> went on the inside of me and the footpath on the other side of the >>>>>> road just as I was about to reach the other side. >>>>> He was on the road obeying the rules (including the speed-limit), you >>>>> were crossing illegally. >>>>> He saw you, you didn't see him. >>>>> He swerved and avoided you (while on the roadway) yet you maintain HE >>>>> was in the wrong!! >>>> Logic failure. Regardless of any illegality Kev may or may not have >>>> made, the requirement to give way to pedestrians who have a green walk >>>> signal is absolute, and not relieved by any other negligence. >>>> JL >>> However if the pedestrian walks when the pedestrian walk signal is red >>> the situation IS different and the driver isn't automatically at fault. >> >> Are yer sure G-S ? >> >> JL >> (noting also that the road rules aren't truly unified yet so there may >> be NSW / Vic differences still) > >There is (or at least was) a defence specifically relating to >pedestrians crossing when the pedestrian marker was red in Victoria. > >I'm somewhat familiar with this because I guy I knew hit a person who >walked out on the red and she died. > >Not up on the details and the guy is now in Darwin, not sure how I'd >check the court records... I'm still pretty sure the vehicle has to give way to pedestrians in all states. Yes, if someone is crossing a red light then if you hit them, a court will exonerate you from manslaughter if it goes that far. But the bigger nastier car has to give way to pedestrians as much as it is possible. It's not just a legal situation, it's common bloody sense. If you do strike a "jaywalker" then you probably won't end up in jail. But if you ploughed into a bunch of people on a green pedestrian light I think you might have a little while of very bland food and a small room. Kev
From: Lars Chance on 27 Apr 2010 04:53 F Murtz wrote: > Lars Chance wrote: >> (But I love the "pedal-powered-vehicle-was-obviously-speeding" defence) >> >> > If the cyclist was not going too fast for the conditions why did he > collide with the pedestrians? Was he not watching where he was going? > I kinda thought Kev just made up the second incident (to demonise the cyclist) but for the sake of the argument there could be a few reasons other than speed. Of course we've already mentioned the most obvious; that the crash was a result of him being out of control after having to swerve to avoid Kev. He might also have turned his head to give Kev a long withering-stare and not looked back in time. He may have even just become so angry at meat-head pedestrians that he decided to ram the next one he saw! The fact that he was turning when he collided with them tends to indicate that speed *wasn't* much of a factor (hard to speed around right-angle corners on a pushie) -- Elsie.
From: Nev.. on 27 Apr 2010 05:20 On 27/04/2010 6:53 PM, Lars Chance wrote: > The fact that he was turning when he collided with them tends to > indicate that speed *wasn't* much of a factor (hard to speed around > right-angle corners on a pushie) Really? I thought cornering speed was a function of weight, among other variables. Compare the speed which 125cc bikes carry through corners compared to MotoGP bikes as an illustration. Nev.. '08 DL1000K8
From: Lars Chance on 27 Apr 2010 05:30
Nev.. wrote: > On 27/04/2010 6:53 PM, Lars Chance wrote: > >> The fact that he was turning when he collided with them tends to >> indicate that speed *wasn't* much of a factor (hard to speed around >> right-angle corners on a pushie) > > Really? I thought cornering speed was a function of weight, among other > variables. Compare the speed which 125cc bikes carry through corners > compared to MotoGP bikes as an illustration. > They don't have to leave clearance for the pedalling! -- Elsie. |