From: Hammo on



On 10/2/07 12:35 AM, in article
xM_yh.5242$sd2.4411(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
<knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message
> news:C1F2B3EC.1F51C%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au...
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/2/07 10:27 PM, in article
>> NUYyh.5171$sd2.1392(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
>> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message
>>> news:C1F1774F.1F39A%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/2/07 12:34 AM, in article
>>>> YFFyh.4682$sd2.653(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
>>>> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Nev.." <idiot(a)mindless.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I think you've been reading too many physics books and you've lost
>>>>>> sight
>>>>>> of reality. Are you saying that if I measure something once per
>>>>>> second
>>>>>> and then multiply that by 3600 my result is not an accurate measure of
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> hourly rate? Do you think the computer controlling the fuel rate just
>>>>>> guesses?
>>>>>>
>>>>> No; it actuates the injector the exact amount that it's been told to
>>>>> for
>>>>> the
>>>>> conditions it's measured.
>>>>> It then displays the exact mpg (L/Hr, Km per kilojoule or whatever)
>>>>> that's
>>>>> it's been told to display too.
>>>>>
>>>>> But it doesn't have any idea what a litre actually is and it certainly
>>>>> doean't have any ability to actually measure one!
>>>>
>>>> Eh?
>>>>
>>>> It's measured, but it can't measure?
>>>>
>>> Quantify "measured".
>>
>> That is exactly what I am asking you to do!!
>>
> But I said it's NOT measured.

Look up the page!! It measures things, so the sum of the measure must be
something.

Hammo

From: Hammo on



On 10/2/07 12:41 AM, in article
QR_yh.5250$sd2.4864(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
<knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message
> news:C1F2A90C.1F50B%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au...
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/2/07 9:23 AM, in article
>> 1170973410.349356.238620(a)m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com,
>> "jlittler(a)my-deja.com" <jlittler(a)my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 9, 12:56 am, Hammo <hbaj2...(a)aapt.net.au> wrote:
>>>> On 9/2/07 12:34 AM, in article
>>>> YFFyh.4682$sd2....(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <knobdoo...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Nev.." <i...(a)mindless.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I think you've been reading too many physics books and you've lost
>>>>>> sight
>>>>>> of reality. Are you saying that if I measure something once per
>>>>>> second
>>>>>> and then multiply that by 3600 my result is not an accurate measure of
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> hourly rate? Do you think the computer controlling the fuel rate just
>>>>>> guesses?
>>>>
>>>>> No; it actuates the injector the exact amount that it's been told to
>>>>> for the
>>>>> conditions it's measured.
>>>>> It then displays the exact mpg (L/Hr, Km per kilojoule or whatever)
>>>>> that's
>>>>> it's been told to display too.
>>>>
>>>>> But it doesn't have any idea what a litre actually is and it certainly
>>>>> doean't have any ability to actually measure one!
>>>>
>>>> Eh?
>>>>
>>>> It's measured, but it can't measure?
>>>
>>> No, it's calculated based on what actually is "measured" (or more
>>> accurately specified by the efi).
>>>
>>> The efi opens the injector for a period according to what it's lookup
>>> table tells it is the right amount given the parameters it has sensors
>>> measuring. It ASSUMES the fuel pressure (and hence fuel flow) is
>>> correct (unless there has been some new fangled advances in EFI I'm
>>> not aware of). I know of no cars that measure actual fuel flow, they
>>> usually calculate your fuel consumption based on the amount of time
>>> they've opened the injectors, and the number of KM's travelled. Those
>>> two parameters are based on a number of implicit assumptions:
>>> - the fuel pressure is correct
>>> - there are no blockages restricting fuel flow
>>> - the size of your tyres are as specified and hence the number of K's
>>> calculated is correct
>>>
>>> etc etc
>>>
>>> it's a reasonably accurate estimate and more than good enough for the
>>> purposes for which it is used. That doesn't mean the actual fuel flow
>>> is measured.
>>
>> Eh?
>>
>> It's measured but it doesn't measure?
>>
> Why do you keep pretending we've said "it's measured" Hammo; when we've
> quite clearly said the exact opposite!

How does the efi know how much to squirt? It must have some idea, after all
it calcs things to L/100 km. it'd have to be more than just chance. Don't
tell me the petrol pump at the servo is guessing too!!??

Hammo



From: Knobdoodle on

"Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:C1F2CF34.1F579%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au...
>
>
>
> On 10/2/07 12:41 AM, in article
> QR_yh.5250$sd2.4864(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message
>> news:C1F2A90C.1F50B%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/2/07 9:23 AM, in article
>>> 1170973410.349356.238620(a)m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com,
>>> "jlittler(a)my-deja.com" <jlittler(a)my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 9, 12:56 am, Hammo <hbaj2...(a)aapt.net.au> wrote:
>>>>> On 9/2/07 12:34 AM, in article
>>>>> YFFyh.4682$sd2....(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <knobdoo...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Nev.." <i...(a)mindless.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I think you've been reading too many physics books and you've lost
>>>>>>> sight
>>>>>>> of reality. Are you saying that if I measure something once per
>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>> and then multiply that by 3600 my result is not an accurate measure
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> hourly rate? Do you think the computer controlling the fuel rate
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> guesses?
>>>>>
>>>>>> No; it actuates the injector the exact amount that it's been told to
>>>>>> for the
>>>>>> conditions it's measured.
>>>>>> It then displays the exact mpg (L/Hr, Km per kilojoule or whatever)
>>>>>> that's
>>>>>> it's been told to display too.
>>>>>
>>>>>> But it doesn't have any idea what a litre actually is and it
>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>> doean't have any ability to actually measure one!
>>>>>
>>>>> Eh?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's measured, but it can't measure?
>>>>
>>>> No, it's calculated based on what actually is "measured" (or more
>>>> accurately specified by the efi).
>>>>
>>>> The efi opens the injector for a period according to what it's lookup
>>>> table tells it is the right amount given the parameters it has sensors
>>>> measuring. It ASSUMES the fuel pressure (and hence fuel flow) is
>>>> correct (unless there has been some new fangled advances in EFI I'm
>>>> not aware of). I know of no cars that measure actual fuel flow, they
>>>> usually calculate your fuel consumption based on the amount of time
>>>> they've opened the injectors, and the number of KM's travelled. Those
>>>> two parameters are based on a number of implicit assumptions:
>>>> - the fuel pressure is correct
>>>> - there are no blockages restricting fuel flow
>>>> - the size of your tyres are as specified and hence the number of K's
>>>> calculated is correct
>>>>
>>>> etc etc
>>>>
>>>> it's a reasonably accurate estimate and more than good enough for the
>>>> purposes for which it is used. That doesn't mean the actual fuel flow
>>>> is measured.
>>>
>>> Eh?
>>>
>>> It's measured but it doesn't measure?
>>>
>> Why do you keep pretending we've said "it's measured" Hammo; when we've
>> quite clearly said the exact opposite!
>
> How does the efi know how much to squirt? It must have some idea, after
> all
> it calcs things to L/100 km. it'd have to be more than just chance.
> Don't
> tell me the petrol pump at the servo is guessing too!!??
>
My EFI doesn't calculate L/100 km Hammo, but it still seems to know how much
fuel to use.
I have three EFI vehicles in my name and not one of them has a clue about
L/100 km or kilogrammes per joule or wangers per wombat!
They just pump in a little-bit-more or a little-bit-less depending on what
the TPS, RPM and whatever other inputs are telling them to do.
--
Clem


From: G-S on
Hammo wrote:
>
>
> On 10/2/07 12:35 AM, in article
> xM_yh.5242$sd2.4411(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message
>> news:C1F2B3EC.1F51C%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au...
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/2/07 10:27 PM, in article
>>> NUYyh.5171$sd2.1392(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
>>> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message
>>>> news:C1F1774F.1F39A%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/2/07 12:34 AM, in article
>>>>> YFFyh.4682$sd2.653(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
>>>>> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Nev.." <idiot(a)mindless.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I think you've been reading too many physics books and you've lost
>>>>>>> sight
>>>>>>> of reality. Are you saying that if I measure something once per
>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>> and then multiply that by 3600 my result is not an accurate measure of
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> hourly rate? Do you think the computer controlling the fuel rate just
>>>>>>> guesses?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No; it actuates the injector the exact amount that it's been told to
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> conditions it's measured.
>>>>>> It then displays the exact mpg (L/Hr, Km per kilojoule or whatever)
>>>>>> that's
>>>>>> it's been told to display too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But it doesn't have any idea what a litre actually is and it certainly
>>>>>> doean't have any ability to actually measure one!
>>>>> Eh?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's measured, but it can't measure?
>>>>>
>>>> Quantify "measured".
>>> That is exactly what I am asking you to do!!
>>>
>> But I said it's NOT measured.
>
> Look up the page!! It measures things, so the sum of the measure must be
> something.
>
Some of the things it does are measured, others aren't. The result when
combined is effectivly an _estimate_.


G-S
From: jjw1937 on
G-S wrote:
> Some of the things it does are measured, others aren't. The result when
> combined is effectivly an _estimate_.
>
>
> G-S
P'raps Nev believes rules of physics are relative at our operating pressure, temperature, velocities and masses. That's fine if you're a school literature teacher but they are LAWS in our dimension for us science teachers.

JohnW quickly removes mortar board (and pistol) and installs skid lid for the flack.
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