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From: Hammo on 9 Feb 2007 09:06 On 10/2/07 12:35 AM, in article xM_yh.5242$sd2.4411(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle" <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message > news:C1F2B3EC.1F51C%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au... >> >> >> >> On 9/2/07 10:27 PM, in article >> NUYyh.5171$sd2.1392(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle" >> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message >>> news:C1F1774F.1F39A%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/2/07 12:34 AM, in article >>>> YFFyh.4682$sd2.653(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle" >>>> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Nev.." <idiot(a)mindless.com> wrote: >>>>>> I think you've been reading too many physics books and you've lost >>>>>> sight >>>>>> of reality. Are you saying that if I measure something once per >>>>>> second >>>>>> and then multiply that by 3600 my result is not an accurate measure of >>>>>> an >>>>>> hourly rate? Do you think the computer controlling the fuel rate just >>>>>> guesses? >>>>>> >>>>> No; it actuates the injector the exact amount that it's been told to >>>>> for >>>>> the >>>>> conditions it's measured. >>>>> It then displays the exact mpg (L/Hr, Km per kilojoule or whatever) >>>>> that's >>>>> it's been told to display too. >>>>> >>>>> But it doesn't have any idea what a litre actually is and it certainly >>>>> doean't have any ability to actually measure one! >>>> >>>> Eh? >>>> >>>> It's measured, but it can't measure? >>>> >>> Quantify "measured". >> >> That is exactly what I am asking you to do!! >> > But I said it's NOT measured. Look up the page!! It measures things, so the sum of the measure must be something. Hammo
From: Hammo on 9 Feb 2007 09:24 On 10/2/07 12:41 AM, in article QR_yh.5250$sd2.4864(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle" <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message > news:C1F2A90C.1F50B%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au... >> >> >> >> On 9/2/07 9:23 AM, in article >> 1170973410.349356.238620(a)m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com, >> "jlittler(a)my-deja.com" <jlittler(a)my-deja.com> wrote: >> >>> On Feb 9, 12:56 am, Hammo <hbaj2...(a)aapt.net.au> wrote: >>>> On 9/2/07 12:34 AM, in article >>>> YFFyh.4682$sd2....(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <knobdoo...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Nev.." <i...(a)mindless.com> wrote: >>>>>> I think you've been reading too many physics books and you've lost >>>>>> sight >>>>>> of reality. Are you saying that if I measure something once per >>>>>> second >>>>>> and then multiply that by 3600 my result is not an accurate measure of >>>>>> an >>>>>> hourly rate? Do you think the computer controlling the fuel rate just >>>>>> guesses? >>>> >>>>> No; it actuates the injector the exact amount that it's been told to >>>>> for the >>>>> conditions it's measured. >>>>> It then displays the exact mpg (L/Hr, Km per kilojoule or whatever) >>>>> that's >>>>> it's been told to display too. >>>> >>>>> But it doesn't have any idea what a litre actually is and it certainly >>>>> doean't have any ability to actually measure one! >>>> >>>> Eh? >>>> >>>> It's measured, but it can't measure? >>> >>> No, it's calculated based on what actually is "measured" (or more >>> accurately specified by the efi). >>> >>> The efi opens the injector for a period according to what it's lookup >>> table tells it is the right amount given the parameters it has sensors >>> measuring. It ASSUMES the fuel pressure (and hence fuel flow) is >>> correct (unless there has been some new fangled advances in EFI I'm >>> not aware of). I know of no cars that measure actual fuel flow, they >>> usually calculate your fuel consumption based on the amount of time >>> they've opened the injectors, and the number of KM's travelled. Those >>> two parameters are based on a number of implicit assumptions: >>> - the fuel pressure is correct >>> - there are no blockages restricting fuel flow >>> - the size of your tyres are as specified and hence the number of K's >>> calculated is correct >>> >>> etc etc >>> >>> it's a reasonably accurate estimate and more than good enough for the >>> purposes for which it is used. That doesn't mean the actual fuel flow >>> is measured. >> >> Eh? >> >> It's measured but it doesn't measure? >> > Why do you keep pretending we've said "it's measured" Hammo; when we've > quite clearly said the exact opposite! How does the efi know how much to squirt? It must have some idea, after all it calcs things to L/100 km. it'd have to be more than just chance. Don't tell me the petrol pump at the servo is guessing too!!?? Hammo
From: Knobdoodle on 9 Feb 2007 09:38 "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message news:C1F2CF34.1F579%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au... > > > > On 10/2/07 12:41 AM, in article > QR_yh.5250$sd2.4864(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle" > <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message >> news:C1F2A90C.1F50B%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au... >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/2/07 9:23 AM, in article >>> 1170973410.349356.238620(a)m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com, >>> "jlittler(a)my-deja.com" <jlittler(a)my-deja.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Feb 9, 12:56 am, Hammo <hbaj2...(a)aapt.net.au> wrote: >>>>> On 9/2/07 12:34 AM, in article >>>>> YFFyh.4682$sd2....(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <knobdoo...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> "Nev.." <i...(a)mindless.com> wrote: >>>>>>> I think you've been reading too many physics books and you've lost >>>>>>> sight >>>>>>> of reality. Are you saying that if I measure something once per >>>>>>> second >>>>>>> and then multiply that by 3600 my result is not an accurate measure >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> hourly rate? Do you think the computer controlling the fuel rate >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> guesses? >>>>> >>>>>> No; it actuates the injector the exact amount that it's been told to >>>>>> for the >>>>>> conditions it's measured. >>>>>> It then displays the exact mpg (L/Hr, Km per kilojoule or whatever) >>>>>> that's >>>>>> it's been told to display too. >>>>> >>>>>> But it doesn't have any idea what a litre actually is and it >>>>>> certainly >>>>>> doean't have any ability to actually measure one! >>>>> >>>>> Eh? >>>>> >>>>> It's measured, but it can't measure? >>>> >>>> No, it's calculated based on what actually is "measured" (or more >>>> accurately specified by the efi). >>>> >>>> The efi opens the injector for a period according to what it's lookup >>>> table tells it is the right amount given the parameters it has sensors >>>> measuring. It ASSUMES the fuel pressure (and hence fuel flow) is >>>> correct (unless there has been some new fangled advances in EFI I'm >>>> not aware of). I know of no cars that measure actual fuel flow, they >>>> usually calculate your fuel consumption based on the amount of time >>>> they've opened the injectors, and the number of KM's travelled. Those >>>> two parameters are based on a number of implicit assumptions: >>>> - the fuel pressure is correct >>>> - there are no blockages restricting fuel flow >>>> - the size of your tyres are as specified and hence the number of K's >>>> calculated is correct >>>> >>>> etc etc >>>> >>>> it's a reasonably accurate estimate and more than good enough for the >>>> purposes for which it is used. That doesn't mean the actual fuel flow >>>> is measured. >>> >>> Eh? >>> >>> It's measured but it doesn't measure? >>> >> Why do you keep pretending we've said "it's measured" Hammo; when we've >> quite clearly said the exact opposite! > > How does the efi know how much to squirt? It must have some idea, after > all > it calcs things to L/100 km. it'd have to be more than just chance. > Don't > tell me the petrol pump at the servo is guessing too!!?? > My EFI doesn't calculate L/100 km Hammo, but it still seems to know how much fuel to use. I have three EFI vehicles in my name and not one of them has a clue about L/100 km or kilogrammes per joule or wangers per wombat! They just pump in a little-bit-more or a little-bit-less depending on what the TPS, RPM and whatever other inputs are telling them to do. -- Clem
From: G-S on 9 Feb 2007 16:20 Hammo wrote: > > > On 10/2/07 12:35 AM, in article > xM_yh.5242$sd2.4411(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle" > <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >> "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message >> news:C1F2B3EC.1F51C%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au... >>> >>> >>> On 9/2/07 10:27 PM, in article >>> NUYyh.5171$sd2.1392(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle" >>> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> "Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message >>>> news:C1F1774F.1F39A%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/2/07 12:34 AM, in article >>>>> YFFyh.4682$sd2.653(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle" >>>>> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> "Nev.." <idiot(a)mindless.com> wrote: >>>>>>> I think you've been reading too many physics books and you've lost >>>>>>> sight >>>>>>> of reality. Are you saying that if I measure something once per >>>>>>> second >>>>>>> and then multiply that by 3600 my result is not an accurate measure of >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> hourly rate? Do you think the computer controlling the fuel rate just >>>>>>> guesses? >>>>>>> >>>>>> No; it actuates the injector the exact amount that it's been told to >>>>>> for >>>>>> the >>>>>> conditions it's measured. >>>>>> It then displays the exact mpg (L/Hr, Km per kilojoule or whatever) >>>>>> that's >>>>>> it's been told to display too. >>>>>> >>>>>> But it doesn't have any idea what a litre actually is and it certainly >>>>>> doean't have any ability to actually measure one! >>>>> Eh? >>>>> >>>>> It's measured, but it can't measure? >>>>> >>>> Quantify "measured". >>> That is exactly what I am asking you to do!! >>> >> But I said it's NOT measured. > > Look up the page!! It measures things, so the sum of the measure must be > something. > Some of the things it does are measured, others aren't. The result when combined is effectivly an _estimate_. G-S
From: jjw1937 on 9 Feb 2007 18:00
G-S wrote: > Some of the things it does are measured, others aren't. The result when > combined is effectivly an _estimate_. > > > G-S P'raps Nev believes rules of physics are relative at our operating pressure, temperature, velocities and masses. That's fine if you're a school literature teacher but they are LAWS in our dimension for us science teachers. JohnW quickly removes mortar board (and pistol) and installs skid lid for the flack. |