From: Dale Porter on
"Smee R11S" <me(a)there.net> wrote in message news:45cda83f_3(a)x-privat.org...
> Kathryn Vickers wrote:
>> Sing along with me now (al la Summer Holiday)
>> "Hammo's playing Devil's Advocate
>> Trying to get bites from one or two
>> He'll keep going 'til you lose your rag with it,
>> Pedantic bantering keeps him sane
>> There's nothing you can do"
>>
>> K
>
> Hehehehehe
> You aint half statin the obvious Nurse Vickers.
> (I'm not following ths thread)

Is she ever! I grew up with a father who plays devil's advocate at every opportunity, and is far better at it (and far less obvious
about it) than Hammo.

--
Dale Porter
GPX250 -> CBR600 -> VTR1000 + VT250F-J


From: Knobdoodle on

"Kathryn Vickers" <iamsistaman(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:C1F3DFE5.2A79%iamsistaman(a)aapt.net.au...
> Sing along with me now (al la Summer Holiday)
> "Hammo's playing Devil's Advocate
> Trying to get bites from one or two
> He'll keep going 'til you lose your rag with it,
> Pedantic bantering keeps him sane
> There's nothing you can do"
>
Ain't no surprises there Katho; so long as you wrestle the greasy pig and
don't let it run anywhere but the course-du-jour there's no problems.
--
Clem


From: jlittler on
On Feb 10, 8:47 pm, Kathryn Vickers <iamsista...(a)aapt.net.au> wrote:
> Sing along with me now (al la Summer Holiday)
> "Hammo's playing Devil's Advocate
> Trying to get bites from one or two
> He'll keep going 'til you lose your rag with it,
> Pedantic bantering keeps him sane
> There's nothing you can do"

While patently true, there's a difference between obstinately arguing
an inaccurate, irrelevant or indefensible point and being a devil's
advocate that Hammo always seems to miss

JL

From: Knobdoodle on

"Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote:
> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Come off the grass Hammo; Blind Freddie's seeing-eye-dog's fleas can see
>> you're trying diversion after obfuscation!
>> That's why we keep repeating the obvious and logical with every reply.
>> Standard Operation Procedure.
>
> Obfuscation, that is a long bow to draw. ...and it is standard operating
> procedure.
>
No. Yes.
>
> You can repeat something till you are blue in the face and it won't change
> it. If by logical and obvious, you mean "it works for you" then I am
> happy
> that you have achieved your goal.
>
Magnetism and Electromagnetic Force works for me Hammo.
I'm happy and I'm sure that it's happy that you're happy about it too!
>
> I don't agree and therefore I'm going to point out what I consider to be
> logical [though not necessarily obvious]. For example are you aware of
> the
> grades of analytical glassware that is used to measure liquids? ....
>
I can't see no diversion or obfuscation here Cheif Inspector!
>
>......For you it
> is a moot point as you take the stance of lights on in the day is waste of
> fuel, where as I don't (depending on the DRL). There is no waste as I
> want
> it on and it does it's job well. Yes, it uses fuel, no it's not a waste.
>
And of course this isn't what we were talking about and it also was covered
about 30 posts ago when I said "If the lights are serving a purpose then the
fuel isn't being wasted".
>
> Crystal?
>
No; chrystal would be a waste.
--
Clem


From: JL on
Hammo wrote:
>
>
> On 10/2/07 12:41 AM, in article
> QR_yh.5250$sd2.4864(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
> <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Hammo" <hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au> wrote in message
>>news:C1F2A90C.1F50B%hbaj2006(a)aapt.net.au...
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On 9/2/07 9:23 AM, in article
>>>1170973410.349356.238620(a)m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com,
>>>"jlittler(a)my-deja.com" <jlittler(a)my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Feb 9, 12:56 am, Hammo <hbaj2...(a)aapt.net.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 9/2/07 12:34 AM, in article
>>>>>YFFyh.4682$sd2....(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Knobdoodle"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><knobdoo...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Nev.." <i...(a)mindless.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think you've been reading too many physics books and you've lost
>>>>>>>sight
>>>>>>>of reality. Are you saying that if I measure something once per
>>>>>>>second
>>>>>>>and then multiply that by 3600 my result is not an accurate measure of
>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>hourly rate? Do you think the computer controlling the fuel rate just
>>>>>>>guesses?
>>>>>
>>>>>>No; it actuates the injector the exact amount that it's been told to
>>>>>>for the
>>>>>>conditions it's measured.
>>>>>>It then displays the exact mpg (L/Hr, Km per kilojoule or whatever)
>>>>>>that's
>>>>>>it's been told to display too.
>>>>>
>>>>>>But it doesn't have any idea what a litre actually is and it certainly
>>>>>>doean't have any ability to actually measure one!
>>>>>
>>>>>Eh?
>>>>>
>>>>>It's measured, but it can't measure?
>>>>
>>>>No, it's calculated based on what actually is "measured" (or more
>>>>accurately specified by the efi).
>>>>
>>>>The efi opens the injector for a period according to what it's lookup
>>>>table tells it is the right amount given the parameters it has sensors
>>>>measuring. It ASSUMES the fuel pressure (and hence fuel flow) is
>>>>correct (unless there has been some new fangled advances in EFI I'm
>>>>not aware of). I know of no cars that measure actual fuel flow, they
>>>>usually calculate your fuel consumption based on the amount of time
>>>>they've opened the injectors, and the number of KM's travelled. Those
>>>>two parameters are based on a number of implicit assumptions:
>>>>- the fuel pressure is correct
>>>>- there are no blockages restricting fuel flow
>>>>- the size of your tyres are as specified and hence the number of K's
>>>>calculated is correct
>>>>
>>>>etc etc
>>>>
>>>>it's a reasonably accurate estimate and more than good enough for the
>>>>purposes for which it is used. That doesn't mean the actual fuel flow
>>>>is measured.
>>>
>>>Eh?
>>>
>>>It's measured but it doesn't measure?
>>>
>>
>>Why do you keep pretending we've said "it's measured" Hammo; when we've
>>quite clearly said the exact opposite!
>
>
> How does the efi know how much to squirt?

Because a human told it what to do, if these parameters are measured
(which don't include measuring fuel flow), then do x.

> It must have some idea, after all
> it calcs things to L/100 km. it'd have to be more than just chance.

Uhuh, it sticks it's metaphorical finger in the air and makes it's best
guess, based on the things it does know. It's usually a pretty fair
estimate to, same as when I walk outside, wave my arms around a bit and
say "I think it's about 22, 24 degrees celsius this morning"

> Don't
> tell me the petrol pump at the servo is guessing too!!??

In my experience, yes, yes very definitely.

JL
(it's always impressive to put 16L into a 15L tank I think)
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