Regulator/rectifier FOAK
in [UK Motorcycles]
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From: Simon Wilson on 11 Sep 2006 11:36 I've still got a charging problem on my '95 Pan. It's the old type 28A alternator, works fine if I don't have the lights on. If I have lights on, I get a flat battery in short order. I have checked out the stator/rotor coils' resistances and for shorts - they all seem ok. At some point, someone has replaced the reg/rectumfrier with an SH541-12 and hard wired it in without the troublesome connector. If I google this, the ST1100 is not listed as compatible. The wiring of this device is not the same as the original one. It has three yellow wires - connect to the stator for the ac in - no problem. Two green wires that are both earthed. Two white/red wires that are connected to batt + (unswitched). Then, it has one black wire that is connected to a) a switched ignition source (the brake light switch) and b) one side of the rotor coil. The other side of the rotor coil is connected to earth. I've thought and thought about this, it looks to me like it's been wired up wrong. I think the principle of the reg/rec is that it can vary the voltage to the rotor coil as required, and therefore the amount of charging current? The way this is wired up, the rotor coil gets battery voltage all of the time and that's it. Does anyone know what the black wire is on the SH541 - is it an input or an output, and what should it connect to? It's listed as suitable for VF750 F/S VF750 FD 83-86 CBR1000FH-FJ 87-88 VF1000 F. Anyone got a circuit diag. of the charging circuit for any of these bikes they could send me? If, as it is currently wired with the rotor getting 12v, does that mean I am getting maximum output from the alternator all of the time? If this is the case then I'm a bit stuck, cos' it's not supplying enough current when the lights are on. Or, can the reg/rec supply more than 12v to the rotor coil when it needs to increase the output, in which case I need to figure out the wiring or get different reg/rec. TIA -- /Simon
From: Mark Olson on 11 Sep 2006 12:11 Simon Wilson <siwilson(a)nospam.hotmail.com> wrote: > > I've still got a charging problem on my '95 Pan. It's the old type 28A > alternator, works fine if I don't have the lights on. If I have lights > on, I get a flat battery in short order. > > I have checked out the stator/rotor coils' resistances and for shorts - > they all seem ok. > > At some point, someone has replaced the reg/rectumfrier with an > SH541-12 and hard wired it in without the troublesome connector. If I > google this, the ST1100 is not listed as compatible. > > The wiring of this device is not the same as the original one. It has > three yellow wires - connect to the stator for the ac in - no problem. > Two green wires that are both earthed. Two white/red wires that are > connected to batt + (unswitched). Then, it has one black wire that is > connected to a) a switched ignition source (the brake light switch) and > b) one side of the rotor coil. The other side of the rotor coil is > connected to earth. > > I've thought and thought about this, it looks to me like it's been > wired up wrong. I think the principle of the reg/rec is that it can > vary the voltage to the rotor coil as required, and therefore the > amount of charging current? The way this is wired up, the rotor coil > gets battery voltage all of the time and that's it. > > Does anyone know what the black wire is on the SH541 - is it an input > or an output, and what should it connect to? It's listed as suitable > for VF750 F/S VF750 FD 83-86 CBR1000FH-FJ 87-88 VF1000 F. Anyone got a > circuit diag. of the charging circuit for any of these bikes they could > send me? > > If, as it is currently wired with the rotor getting 12v, does that mean > I am getting maximum output from the alternator all of the time? If > this is the case then I'm a bit stuck, cos' it's not supplying enough > current when the lights are on. Or, can the reg/rec supply more than > 12v to the rotor coil when it needs to increase the output, in which > case I need to figure out the wiring or get different reg/rec. > > TIA If I am not mistaken the SH541-12 is a regulator/rectifier for a permanent magnet type alternator[1]. I believe your ST1100 has an excited field type alternator. There really is no way to adapt this reg/rect to work properly with your ST1100. You need to get something made to work with your bike's charging system. http://www.st1100.org/bilder/man/20_01.jpg Shows an ST1100 has an excited field alternator. http://www.electrosport.com/electrosport_electrical_honda1.html Model ESR230, USD 99.00, no idea if they ship to the UK. http://www.electrosport.com/shopping_regulator_rectifiers/prod_esr230.html David Silver spares: You have selected: ST1100 : OE Regulator Rectifier 91-95 (L/M/N/P/R/S) Further Details: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURE REGULATOR RECTIFIER enter quantity required Quantity: Price: GBP 55.00 <OT for reference only> [1] The black wire is probably a voltage sense lead. I had this exact same regulator on my 1986 GL1200A and I had to re-wire the sense lead directly to the (+) terminal of the battery, since the point where it was originally hooked to, had considerable voltage drop due to poor connections and multiple connectors, so the regulator was forcing too many volts onto the battery, frying it. HTH -- '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13 '81 CM400T OMF #7
From: Simon Wilson on 11 Sep 2006 13:09 Mark Olson wrote: <snip tales of bad wiring woe> > > If I am not mistaken the SH541-12 is a regulator/rectifier for a > permanent magnet type alternator[1]. I believe your ST1100 has an > excited field type alternator. There really is no way to adapt this > reg/rect to work properly with your ST1100. You need to get > something made to work with your bike's charging system. > > http://www.st1100.org/bilder/man/20_01.jpg > > Shows an ST1100 has an excited field alternator. > > http://www.electrosport.com/electrosport_electrical_honda1.html > > Model ESR230, USD 99.00, no idea if they ship to the UK. > > http://www.electrosport.com/shopping_regulator_rectifiers/prod_esr230. > html > > David Silver spares: > > You have selected: ST1100 : OE Regulator Rectifier 91-95 (L/M/N/P/R/S) > Further Details: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURE REGULATOR RECTIFIER > > enter quantity required Quantity: Price: GBP 55.00 > > <OT for reference only> > [1] The black wire is probably a voltage sense lead. I had this exact > same regulator on my 1986 GL1200A and I had to re-wire the sense lead > directly to the (+) terminal of the battery, since the point where it > was originally hooked to, had considerable voltage drop due to poor > connections and multiple connectors, so the regulator was forcing too > many volts onto the battery, frying it. > > HTH It does indeed thank you, and explains a lot. Think I'll get me one of these: http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/#598X599 which looks just like the one you found. -- /Simon
From: Hog on 12 Sep 2006 04:36 Simon Wilson wrote: > Mark Olson wrote: > > <snip tales of bad wiring woe> >> >> If I am not mistaken the SH541-12 is a regulator/rectifier for a >> permanent magnet type alternator[1]. I believe your ST1100 has an >> excited field type alternator. There really is no way to adapt this >> reg/rect to work properly with your ST1100. You need to get >> something made to work with your bike's charging system. >> >> http://www.st1100.org/bilder/man/20_01.jpg >> >> Shows an ST1100 has an excited field alternator. >> >> http://www.electrosport.com/electrosport_electrical_honda1.html >> >> Model ESR230, USD 99.00, no idea if they ship to the UK. >> >> http://www.electrosport.com/shopping_regulator_rectifiers/prod_esr230. >> html >> >> David Silver spares: >> >> You have selected: ST1100 : OE Regulator Rectifier 91-95 >> (L/M/N/P/R/S) Further Details: ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURE >> REGULATOR RECTIFIER >> >> enter quantity required Quantity: Price: GBP 55.00 >> >> <OT for reference only> >> [1] The black wire is probably a voltage sense lead. I had this >> exact same regulator on my 1986 GL1200A and I had to re-wire the >> sense lead directly to the (+) terminal of the battery, since the >> point where it was originally hooked to, had considerable voltage >> drop due to poor connections and multiple connectors, so the >> regulator was forcing too many volts onto the battery, frying it. >> >> HTH > > It does indeed thank you, and explains a lot. Think I'll get me one of > these: http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/#598X599 which looks just like > the one you found. UKRM, occasionally an *amazing* source of good information. -- Hog '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400
From: Mark Olson on 15 Sep 2006 08:32
Simon Wilson <siwilson(a)nospam.hotmail.com> wrote: > Damn it wasn't the reg/rec. I have fitted proper one for the bike, and > wired it up correctly, removing the permanent 12V feed to the > alternator. > > I still have the same problem, in that the battery flattens in short > order if I ride with the lights on. The first symptom that the battery > volts are low is that the ABS light starts flashing. > > I had the battery on charge[1] for a couple of days before I test rode > it. Put the headlights on, went about 5 minutes down the road, then > stopped at a junction for a couple of minutes to make an adjustment[1]. > By the time I was ready to set off, the ABS light was flashing again. > > I've got a knackered battery haven't I? Battery is 12Ah, the lights > should draw about 5amps = 2 hours of running or so I would have thought > even if it's getting nothing from the alternator. You might well have a knackered battery, but it sounds to me like the alternator's not putting out. I'd try 'full fielding'[1] the altenator while under load and measuring the battery voltage. If it doesn't show evidence of healthy charging the alternator's probably bad. [1] Apply 12V across the field coil. -- '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13 '81 CM400T OMF #7 |