The Big Picture
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From: pablo on 13 Sep 2009 23:16 any year in motorcycle racing can be in the end looked at in 2 ways - there's always the glass half full or empty. even memorably years. roberts was the only rider supported by yamaha, and thus at great advantage when racing sheene. oh and he was much smaller, how dare midgets invade gp racing. spencer had the honda might behind him. all so unfair. etc etc. i think this year is pretty good. to claim lorenzo is the biggest challenge rossi has faced is to quickly forget he has lost the title twice, to hayden and stoner, before. and this year has been entertaining. my gripe is rather that the factory teams are so far ahead, that the fillers don't seem to have a ghost of a chance and just make up bulk, and not enough of it. closer bikes would be nice. that is what the WSB formua has going for it - it is closer, and it's a different bunch of guys in the top 10 more often than not. it also bugs me that Honda is so clueless. Pedrosa is out of excuses - injuries or not, he doesn't seem to be able to direct honda's mighty resources to challenge more effectively. they are reduced to running for third or fourth, which is a shame and a waste of Honda's resources. they ought to do something radical. and this season isn't over yet. rossi has not been infallible, stoner seems to be coming back from his sickness according to the rumor mill and may tilt the point balance. and perhaps pedrosa and honda will finish harder. the season is not over at all. the whole 800 and 250 style thing is a tiresome dicussion. fact is they are the faster bikes, and the cleaner 250cc line happens to be the fastest one around a track every time if the bike is up to it. sliding tires make for good show, but as a rule slow progress down on a track. i like *both*, but i am not sure how to combine them in one series. i must say i *loved* the original US superbike series in the crazy 80 days, with what looked like naked streetbikes. someone ought to do it. and that really ought to move them off the showroom. then again with the current trend to 400lbs bikes with over 160hp and cramped positions i dont think 200lbs types need apply for any bike racing series...
From: Julian Bond on 14 Sep 2009 03:15 Mark N <menusbaumNYETSPAM(a)earthlink.net> Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:57:19 >> There are two bikes I really want to see in Moto2. The Aprilia >>(whatever they end up calling it) and Guy Coulon's Tech3 machine. > >Me, I want to see Team Roberts with their chassis and Josh Herrin and >Blake Young in the saddles. Mostly I just want to see GP2 with lots of >chassis, lots of bikes, and teams and riders from somewhere other than >250 and 125. Pretty psyched about this class, and would love to see it >eventually exported to the national championships in some form, >probably at its best those chassis housing WSS/FX-level production >motors of different brands. Now there's a DSB class I could get behind... The engineer in me wanted to see unlimited tuning of production motors from any factory. And some Triumph 675-3s. But in the long term that may not have been in the best interests of the sport. A lot of the people building chassis will want to recoup some of the investment by selling them so it's probably very likely that club championships will evolve out of this. -- Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433 Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat To Be Human Is To Communicate
From: Julian Bond on 14 Sep 2009 03:19 pablo <pablo(a)simplyhombre.net> Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:16:24 >the whole 800 and 250 style thing is a tiresome dicussion. fact is >they are the faster bikes, and the cleaner 250cc line happens to be >the fastest one around a track every time if the bike is up to it. >sliding tires make for good show, but as a rule slow progress down on >a track. i like *both*, but i am not sure how to combine them in one >series. Try and imagine for a moment what the 990s would look like now with the electronics and tyre development that's happened in the 800 years. I suspect they would be just the same as the 800s but with a higher top speed. They wouldn't be that much faster off the turns. And the untouchables would still be out at the front. -- Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433 Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat To Be Human Is To Communicate
From: Mark N on 14 Sep 2009 10:38 Julian Bond wrote: > pablo >> the whole 800 and 250 style thing is a tiresome dicussion. fact is >> they are the faster bikes, and the cleaner 250cc line happens to be >> the fastest one around a track every time if the bike is up to it. >> sliding tires make for good show, but as a rule slow progress down on >> a track. i like *both*, but i am not sure how to combine them in one >> series. > > Try and imagine for a moment what the 990s would look like now with the > electronics and tyre development that's happened in the 800 years. I > suspect they would be just the same as the 800s but with a higher top > speed. They wouldn't be that much faster off the turns. And the > untouchables would still be out at the front. I'm not buying that. The change from 990s ot 800s in terms of the way they had to be ridden was immediate and obvious back in the fall of 2006 and spring of 2007. Remember guys talking about how you'd have to ride them fast through the corners, like a 250? I think there's a fundamental difference there that has almost nothing to do with tires or electronics. I do think electronics and fuel limitations have had a negative impact on the racing, though, making the situation worse. Without the advances in electronic I don't think these little kids could get on these bikes and just go the way they have, but fundamentally the bikes suit them and their 125/250-derived riding style in ways the 990s didn't so much, and that would be the case today as it was back in 2006. The real problem in MotoGP is that the machines do more today than they ever have, and the riders less. That explains why 125-pound, 21 to 23 year olds can be faster than anyone but the Greatest Of All Time, and really nothing else does. So is that what people want, motorcycle jockeys in the top championship that have never raced in any other series, that have never raced any other kinds of machines, that perhaps can't so well? For GP true believers, it's not a problem, at least they won't say it is, and that is particularly true of those with a EuroMed bent. So no surprise that Pablo thinks things are fine, he's kind of the guy Dorna is playing to with this stuff. But that doesn't mean it's not a problem. It's quite possible that both Toseland and Vermeulen will be back in WSB next year, and another off-song season by Hayden might well have him destined to the same fate in 2011, while Edwards is likely to be back on the ranch for good that year. So that clears out the last of the SB guys left in MotoGP. Spies seems likely to give it a go, but he'll probably be the biggest guy there (I'm guessing he's heavier than Simoncelli), and there's no guarantee at all that with his size, background and passport he's gonna make it in that world. So this is really starting to feel like a decade ago in 500, when almost everyone came force-fed from 250 and the Americans, Aussies and Brits had been mostly run out. And Rossi even seems a bit like Doohan did then, still the giant ruling over the series but increasingly isolated, increasingly assaulted by midgets, increasingly seeming like a guy out of time. And like then, this is not a good thing for GP at all. What rescued GP then was the switch to four strokes and the Phlegminis' folly in WSB. Today the hope is that GP2 can change the rider development math in a material way, something is eventually done about the electronics, and the Flamminis always stand ready to kill the golden goose yet again. We'll see, history could repeat itself, I guess.
From: Julian Bond on 14 Sep 2009 11:58
Mark N <menusbaumNYETSPAM(a)earthlink.net> Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:38:25 >> Try and imagine for a moment what the 990s would look like now with >>the electronics and tyre development that's happened in the 800 >>years. I suspect they would be just the same as the 800s but with a >>higher top speed. They wouldn't be that much faster off the turns. >>And the untouchables would still be out at the front. > >I'm not buying that. The change from 990s ot 800s in terms of the way >they had to be ridden was immediate and obvious back in the fall of >2006 and spring of 2007. But it's now 2009. Try and imagine what a 990 would look like now if the development between late 2006 and now had been applied to them. We'd have the advances in electronics, fairing design, tyres, all of which have come on so far that the 800s are turning faster lap times. All that stuff would have been applied to the 990s. And a 2009 990 would be cornering just as fast as the 800s are now. -- Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433 Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat Follow Dosage Below |