TuneBoy? was Re: Bathurst 1000
in [Aussie Motorcycles]
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From: atec 7 7 "atec on 21 Oct 2009 04:32 Lars Chance wrote: > JL wrote: >> On Oct 21, 12:34 am, Lars Chance <lars.cha...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>> Nev.. wrote: >>>> Never understood all the allegations about twins and torque. None >>>> seem to produce as much as a good jap inline 4. >>> Yeah but who wants torque up the rev-range? (Apart from you, obviously) >>> Twin-lovers like that lazy, low-down, don't have to go looking-for-it >>> grunt. >>> Maybe "torque" isn't the right word for it. >> >> No torque is the right word, it just sounds like you've not compared >> engines lately. >> >> I own a late-ish model litre twin, I love the way the engine performs >> and sounds, but it has by no means the low down grunt of the 4cylinder >> it replaced. The only real difference between it and a brand new >> current litre twin would be a smidgen more top end at the expense of >> even less bottom end. >> >> The reality is even the tuned & modified version of the Raptor (TL1000 >> motor) I have only has a 110 RearWheel HP (stock is about 10 less- 125 >> at the crank claimed) with about 105Nm of torque at the crank claimed >> (don't have my dyno chart handy to be able to tell you what mine >> actually has at the rear wheel. A litre 4, even one 10 years old has >> at least as much (1999 R1 crank claimed 150 HP and 108 Nm for example) >> >> The current model 4's have more all round (the GSXR1000 is renowned >> for it) and the current twins are giving away torque to get HP up top. >> Sure if you compare a 1200 twin to a litre 4 it's about even. >> >> Ie 2009 Ducati 1098R - claimed 180HP and and 134Nm, 2009 R1 claimed >> 180hp and 115Nm and yes the 4 has it's peak higher up the rev rang >> (10K vs 7K) yes 20Nm is noticeable but 200cc you'd expect a little >> more bottom end and the longer rev range tends to make the fact you're >> revving it harder not very noticeable >> > Well torque obviously ISN'T the right word if you're talking about what > an engine is doing at 7000->10000 RPM! > That isn't lazy low-down grunt in anyone's language (anyone vaguely > normal that is!) > That's back 3 gears at 100kph to access the fat part of the > torque-curve? How could that possibly qualify as "don't have to go > looking-for-it grunt"? > I would be interested to see how many not twins can handle a big roll throttle at 1000 in top gear and make it the red line without a problem
From: Zebee Johnstone on 21 Oct 2009 04:36 In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:41:04 +1000 atec 7 7 <"atec 77"@hotmail.com> wrote: > CrazyCam wrote: >> Zebee Johnstone wrote: >>> In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:34:57 GMT >>> Lars Chance <lars.chance(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> Nev.. wrote: >>>> >>>>> Never understood all the allegations about twins and torque. None >>>>> seem to produce as much as a good jap inline 4. >>>>> >>>> Yeah but who wants torque up the rev-range? (Apart from you, obviously) >>>> Twin-lovers like that lazy, low-down, don't have to go looking-for-it >>>> grunt. >>>> Maybe "torque" isn't the right word for it. >>> >>> Don't buy a Guzzi then. They get their jollies at the higher end of >>> their rev range. >> >> But Guzzi owners are, by their own admission, pretty weird! ;-) >> > If you saw the bloke on the guzzi going down the hill into Beenleigh > this morning early you wouldn't make that claim . BUt he probably would. THe owners of the other agricultural v-twin are proud of being weird. "If motorcyclists are the fringe of society, Guzzi owners are the ragged fringe" Zebee - whose 1200 will pootle along at low revs and behave quite properly but doesn't like the throttle being whacked open at low revs. Get the revs over 5 grand though, and whole different ballgame. Just like the 850 it replaced, and just like the other 850.
From: atec 7 7 "atec on 21 Oct 2009 08:50 Zebee Johnstone wrote: > In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:41:04 +1000 > atec 7 7 <"atec 77"@hotmail.com> wrote: >> CrazyCam wrote: >>> Zebee Johnstone wrote: >>>> In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:34:57 GMT >>>> Lars Chance <lars.chance(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Nev.. wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Never understood all the allegations about twins and torque. None >>>>>> seem to produce as much as a good jap inline 4. >>>>>> >>>>> Yeah but who wants torque up the rev-range? (Apart from you, obviously) >>>>> Twin-lovers like that lazy, low-down, don't have to go looking-for-it >>>>> grunt. >>>>> Maybe "torque" isn't the right word for it. >>>> Don't buy a Guzzi then. They get their jollies at the higher end of >>>> their rev range. >>> But Guzzi owners are, by their own admission, pretty weird! ;-) >>> >> If you saw the bloke on the guzzi going down the hill into Beenleigh >> this morning early you wouldn't make that claim . > > BUt he probably would. no a couple of months ago maybe but now he was in the suite with hair and td beard.. kinda incongruous > > THe owners of the other agricultural v-twin are proud of being weird. > > "If motorcyclists are the fringe of society, Guzzi owners are the > ragged fringe" > > Zebee > - whose 1200 will pootle along at low revs and behave quite properly > but doesn't like the throttle being whacked open at low revs. Get > the revs over 5 grand though, and whole different ballgame. Just like > the 850 it replaced, and just like the other 850.
From: IK Laboratories on 21 Oct 2009 09:18 Lars Chance wrote: > > That's back 3 gears at 100kph to access the fat part of the > torque-curve? How could that possibly qualify as "don't have to go > looking-for-it grunt"? Open throttle, bike accelerates, revs rise, torque drops off, you think, "Er, where did the grunt go?" before you change up a gear to drop the revs back down to where the engine hasn't run out of breath yet. Doesn't that sound suspiciously like having to look for grunt?
From: Fraser Johnston on 21 Oct 2009 10:40
"atec 7 7" <"atec 77"@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:hbmgu1$b6e$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > I would be interested to see how many not twins can handle a big roll > throttle at 1000 in top gear and make it the red line without a problem. Bit of a silly test though. It is like saying wonder which one could plow a field if you hooked up a plow to it. Wait up, you ride a Buell. Forget I spoke. Fraser |