From: CrazyCam on 15 May 2010 19:56
Marty H wrote:
> I did an 2 day ADV course a few weeks back and one of the exercisers
> was riding on dirt, and locking the front brake and continue on riding
> with the front brake locked, we did this for about 15 mins, out of the
> 14 riders no one dropped it, this was simply to prove that locking the
> front brake on the dirt wont bring you down, also to practise in the
> event of a front where lock up.
> With the use of counter balancing, I can brake no problems into a dirt
> corner, sure the tyres do help, but having the weight back and to the
> opposite side does alot of the work
> I know this doesn't mean anything to most here because most people
> here are riding road bikes with road tyres and riding them on dirt is
> a completely different discipline that riding a dirt style bike with
> aggressive tyres
It means a lot to me.
It also makes sense to me that one can go and be taught skills in
exchange for money. HART do dirt bike courses which are reasonable,
without getting into the "racer" school territory.
> but it is amazing what a bit of proper training will do
> even with a Dakar winning motorcycle with knobbies, riding it like a
> road bike on the dirt road will bring you unstuck, learning to ride on
> the dirt properly on any style of motorcycle will bring better
> results. The biggest difference IMHO between riding on the road and
> the dirt is where you position your weight on the bike, in some cases
> it is the opposite.
Yup! ...and, with the appropriate weight shifting, how physically
demanding it can be.
I remember that after doing the HART dirt bike course, I could hardly
bloody walk for a week. I found muscles that hurt that I didn't even
know I had. :-|
> with the skills I learnt in the course, I could quite confidently ride
> any bike better on dirt than before the course, of course some bikes
> better than others.
> I did well over 500kms of dirt coming and going to BTs last WE and
> never had a problem with traction and I do not put that down to the
> bike or tyres, I put it down to the training I did a few weeks before
It always helps if you actually know what you are doing.
> staying off the dirt is one option, being taught the ride it is
> another, learning from a newsgroup IMHO is not, just too much info
> that is going in different directions (including mine)
The reason I am keeping on about it is that, wee sound bytes of advice,
like "if in doubt, gass it up" on a newsgroup, really isn't all that
helpful for someone without going deeper into the bike and rider's
capabilities and circumstances.
I shouted myself the HART course as a "celebration" when I packing in
working for a living, and I was amazed at what can be done with a dirt
bike. I found that I could get through bits that I couldn't walk through!
I must admit that I am not sure whether there really is an easy
application of the dirt bike techniques to bigger heavier road bikes, or
if it is just the fact that one has more confidence, but, at least I
don't panic when the bitumen suddenly stops.
From: Knobdoodle on 15 May 2010 23:29
"Marty H" <hytram(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
On May 16, 1:28 am, "Knobdoodle" <knobdoo...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Marty H" <hyt...(a)gmail.com> wroteMarty H wrote:
> > bike that is leaning one way by learning to the other..
> > but it doesnt, because your body weight couter reacting the bike...
> > ....learn to the outside of the turn ...
> > it works, I now about at least 30% more confident ...
> > ... on a dry road you do not usually out perform the the grip level..
> > depends on speed, under 20kmh yes, over 20kmh the no, ...
> > I will bet you I could ride your bike, or any bike better, with my
> > technique on the dirt that riding the same bike on the dirt as you
> > would ride it on the tar.
> I will bet you've found the keys to the liquour-cabinet.
I stand by the comments...
I think thats a little pot/black isnt Clem?
This kettle is so black even the white bits are black Marty; I was just
poking fun at the unusually "creative" spelling/grammar, not commenting on
From: Marty H on 16 May 2010 02:17
On May 16, 1:29 pm, "Knobdoodle" <knobdoo...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Marty H" <hyt...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> On May 16, 1:28 am, "Knobdoodle" <knobdoo...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Marty H" <hyt...(a)gmail.com> wroteMarty H wrote:
> > > bike that is leaning one way by learning to the other..
> > > but it doesnt, because your body weight couter reacting the bike...
> > > ....learn to the outside of the turn ...
> > > it works, I now about at least 30% more confident ...
> > > ... on a dry road you do not usually out perform the the grip level..
> > > depends on speed, under 20kmh yes, over 20kmh the no, ...
> > > I will bet you I could ride your bike, or any bike better, with my
> > > technique on the dirt that riding the same bike on the dirt as you
> > > would ride it on the tar.
> > I will bet you've found the keys to the liquour-cabinet.
> I stand by the comments...
> I think thats a little pot/black isnt Clem?
> This kettle is so black even the white bits are black Marty; I was just
> poking fun at the unusually "creative" spelling/grammar, not commenting on
> the content.
oh..is that all.. you know I cant spell or grammeraterise to save
From: Moike on 16 May 2010 05:42
and it was the only technique that got me into and out of the Dargo High
Plains rally a couple of years back when the track had turned to hard
but slippery clay/mud.
At the top of (steep) hills,I'd kill the motor, put the bike in gear and
use the clutch as a de facto rear brake while using both feet as
outriggers. This was a really slippery surface on road tyres. The
crown of the road had some embedded gravel, but the wheel tracks were so
slippery that at one stage on a straight stretch I simply slid sideways
into the gutter.
So there may be times when paddling is appropriate.
From: Nev.. on 16 May 2010 09:50
On 15/05/2010 10:23 PM, bikerbetty wrote:
> "Knobdoodle"<knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> "bikerbetty"<bikerbettyatgmaildotcom> wrote:
>>> I've been reading this thread conscientiously, and taking in everything
>>> people have said about riding on gravel, and you know what? It seems
>>> there are so many dfferent opinions about the best approach that I am
>>> going to just take my own bloody advice and avoid gravel altogether - a
>>> policy that has served me well over the years.
>> My advice is; if you don't know what to do, try to do nothing.
>> Don't speed up, don't brake, don't lean over, don't do ANYTHING!
>> Just try to ride as straight a line as possible at as constant a speed as
>> you feel save with, and try to stay in the tyre-tracks and out of the big
>> drifts and big holes.
>> If you have to turn, try and make it as wide an arc as you can and if you
>> have to accelerate or brake try and do it as smoothly as you can (I'm a
>> big fan of squeezing the back brake as I throttle-on to keep the bike
>> steady and stop it jerking or porpoising during the change from braking to
>> accelerating [and vice versa by holding on the throttle slightly as I
>> brake]. Most people think this is stupid but it makes me happy.)
> That does sound somewhat like MY strategy as well. Basically - be bloody
> careful! Being the chickenshit that I am on dirt, and not really having a
> clue, I've taken on board a few handy hints from ppl like Lemmiwinks, and I
> always remember the cardinal rule, the Prime Directive - DON'T TOUCH THE
> FRONT BRAKE!
If you dont touch the front brake you're really not doing yourself any
favours. Rider trainers teach novice riders that front brake performs
about 70% of braking and the rear the other 30%. Why would you want to
exclude yourself from using the majority of your braking ability? I do
the majority of braking on gravel roads with my front brake, pretty much
the same bias that I would use on a sealed road. So long as you do your
braking in a straight line, with the bike upright, and you're not
squeezing the bejesus out of the lever, (you know, just following all
the basic braking rules) it's hard to go wrong.
Using the front brake is not going to be a problem unless you're locking
up the front wheel. Do you grab the front brake hard enough to lock up
the front wheel ever? Would you do it on gravel? Progressive braking
that instructors teach novices works just as well on gravel road as it
does on a tarmac training course.
I wouldn't listen to someone who gave such a grossly generalised and
fearmongering advice as "DON'T TOUCH THE FRONT BRAKE!".