From: demonteacher on 20 Jun 2007 20:53 I've been reading through the posts with the fellow having issues with his XJ 650 carbs, and it sounded terribly familiar. I've got an '81 XJ 550 Maxim with a sick carb and wouldn't mind a pointer if anyone out there can help. So far: the carbs have been cleaned (as in torn down, soaked and all passages blown clean with an air hose)
From: Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com on 20 Jun 2007 22:17 demonteacher(a)gmail.com wrote: >Problem: Boggy and sloppy at the bottom end. The mixture is too rich. Multiple possible causes. >When I pull the plugs, they're pretty carboned up, which the >troubleshooting guide in my manual suggests means that it's running >too rich. The fact that it positively sucks gas seems to back this >theory up. Agreed >Anyone know how to adjust this carb so that it doesn't run so rich? Yes. Start by inspecting the sprue sticking up on top of the carburetor next to the diaphragm cap. You should see an EPA anti-tamper plug there. If you see a slot headed brass screw in a hole there, somebody has drilled out the EPA plug and ignorantly tweaked with the idle mixture screws. They are gas screws, the further you turn them counterclockwise, the richer the idle mixture gets. The ignorant shadetree mechanic thinks that the idle speed should keep increasing as he turns the idle mixture screw more and more counterclockwise. Once he gets past 3 full turns out, the idle mixture screw is no longer doing anything, the idle mixture is too rich, the exhaust sound becomes dull and thudding and the engine may even stall. The shade tree mechanic responds to the stalling by turning the #9 throttle set screw clockwise to raise the idle RPM. This causes the throttle butterfly to open slightly and uncover a pattern of three acceleration transition ports which are in no way controlled by the idle mixture screw. The idle mixture becomes ridiculously rich, the exhaust sound is "toot-toot toot-toot toot-toot" until the rider opens the throttle enough to allow enough air to blow the excess fuel air mixture out of the engine. Maybe he's happy that his motorcycle accelerates so well, but he's probably puzzled by the fact that the idle RPM is too high, the motorcycle acts like it keeps wanting to drive deeper into corners than he intended, or the idle RPM actually hangs up at 4000 RPM for 15 or 20 seconds after he blips throttle grip. So, maybe he turns the #9 throttle set screw back down and just accepts that his engine is prone to sudden stalling. Nyahhh! The correct way to set the idle mixture screws is to start at about 2. 0 full turns out with the engine idling at the correct RPM. Then turn the idle mixture screws clockwise 1/4 of a turn at a time, and, when the idle RPM increases turn the #9 throttle set screw counterclockwise back to the specified RPM. Then turn the idle RPM screw another 1/4 of a turn clockwise and turn the idle RPM down again. When you get to the critical point, the engine starts running rough because the idle mixture is too lean, turn the idle mixtures screws counterclockwise 1/8th of a turn and you're done. When the idle mixture and throttle stop screws are set correctly, your engine will start from cold without using full "choke", and it will idle without messing with the throttle grip while you put your gloves on. Your carburetors don't have a real "choke". There is NO flat plate that increases engine vacuum. Instead, you have the #51, starter plunger. It's an air valve in a passageway that bypasses the throttle butterfly. It sucks gasoline directly out of the float bowl like a kid sucking milk through a straw. If your throttle stop screw is turned too far, there is less vacuum downstream of the throttle butterfly and the "choke" doesn't work well and the bike is hard to start. There is a possibility that one or both of your choke plungers is sticking slightly open. You can find out whether a plunger is sticking by putting your finger over the choke air inlet in the carburetor mouth while the engine is idling. If the idle speed changes, the plunger is leaking. Another possibility is that whoever rebuilt the carburetors adjusted the floats too high. The float dimension is from the bottom of the float to the aluminum carburetor body, NOT to the float bowl gasket. The float bowl gasket is about 1mm thick, and the additional 1mm of float travel before shutting the gasoline supply off raises the gasoline level and makes it too easy for the engine to suck gasoline through the idle jets. Also, do the float bowls drip gasoline? Possibly the float valves (item #43) are sticking from gum and varnish buildup that wasn't removed during the cleaning and rebuilding process. Even a tiny speck of varnish on the needle seat can keep it from sealing properly. Check the jet needle to make sure that the clip is in the second slot from the top, that nobody has added extra shimming washers under the jet needle, and be sure that all the correct washers are stacked in the right order. If the jet needle is too high, the engine will run to rich, because the area difference between the jet needle and needle jet is too large. Inspect your jet needle and the hole in the needle jet. Sometimes needles get worn from banging against the needle jet. A needle jet hole that has been worn egg-shaped by the needle is harder to notice. http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=650832 9: THROTTLE SCREW SET 23: JET,MAIN #170 (This is not really the main jet. It's the pilot air jet.) 29: WASHER 30: CLIP 31: RING 32: NEEDLE 35: JET,PILOT #35 (This is a smallish idle jet, about 2.0 to 2.5 turns of the idle mixture screw should work ok with a jet of this size.) 37: MAIN JET (112.5) 43: NEEDLE VALVE SET 51: PLUNGER,STARTER 53: SPRING,PLUNGER -- Message posted via http://www.motorcyclekb.com
From: Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com on 20 Jun 2007 22:21 Albrecht wrote: >Then turn the idle RPM screw another 1/4 of a turn clockwise and turn the >idle RPM down again. When you get to the critical point, the engine starts >running rough because the idle mixture is too lean, turn the idle mixtures >screws counterclockwise 1/8th of a turn and you're done. I should have written "Then turn the idle MIXTURE screws another 1/4 of a turn clockwise and turn the idle RPM down again. When you get to the critical point, the engine starts running rough because the idle mixture is too lean, turn the idle mixtures screws counterclockwise 1/8th of a turn and you're done. -- Message posted via http://www.motorcyclekb.com
From: demonteacher on 21 Jun 2007 13:46 Whew. That's going to take me a minute to digest. I admit that I was in a bit of trouble by the time I read "sprue", but the rest of it seems workable for a shade tree guy like me. :) Thanks Albrecht...I'll try it and report back.
From: Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com on 21 Jun 2007 14:36 demonteacher(a)gmail.com wrote: >Whew. That's going to take me a minute to digest. I admit that I was >in a bit of trouble by the time I read "sprue", but the rest of it >seems workable for a shade tree guy like me. :) Thanks >Albrecht...I'll try it and report back. A 'sprue' is a protruberance from a metal casting. the molten metal goes into the mold through a hole and a cylindrical sprue is left standing. Engineers usually plan to drill and tap hole in the sprue so they can bolt something to it. But carburetor engineers have been using the sprue I mentioned for the idle mixture screw and a plug to conceal it from idle hands. -- Message posted via MotorcycleKB.com http://www.motorcyclekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/tech/200706/1
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