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From: �yamaha_majesty on 26 Feb 2007 03:44
To: maxi-scooters(a)yahoogroups.com

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:17:40 -0000 (GMT), you wrote:

|>
|>"Scootrunner" said:-
|>
|>>>causing the battery to be permanently
|>>> low-charged. And that kills 'em.
|>>
|>> Except that gel batteries (like the TMax's) tolerate being deep-cycled
|>> ('flattened') but not over-charged.....
|>>
|>
|>As an Old Fogey, with just on 50 yrs of playing with motorised vehicles, I
|>was initially disbelieving at the concept of vehicle batteries fitted in
|>situ on their sides - I did assume that any such battery would have to be
|>gel filled.
|>
|>However as, inter alia, "Robert La Casse" said on this list, the GT9B-4
|>battery as fitted to the Yamaha Majesty 400 and the Tmax is clearly shown
|>on the casing to be 'Valve Regulated Lead-Acid Non-Spillable'. The initial
|>fitment battery on my 2001 Tmax is labelled GS and was made by the Japan
|>Storage Battery Co.
|>
|>The replacement I fitted after nearly 4 yrs is also a Lead-Acid sealed unit.
|>
|>So, certainly, not all (if any) original fitment batteries to Yam 400 &
|>Tmax are gel filled.
|>
|>I believe that the Suzuki Burgman 400 (and other scooters?) use this same
|>battery - my main complaint is that at a rated 8 amp. hour it is barely
|>adequate for the job, and it is my belief that this is at least part of
|>the reason that they seem to fail sooner than one would reasonably expect.
|>
|>The Honda CH250 (Spacy & Elite) had a 12v 12 amp. hr. battery, and the
|>CN250 (Helix etc.) a 12v 10 amp. hr. as original fitment, and in a
|>regularly used bike these would last for 8 to 10 years before needing
|>replacement.
|>
|>Robin (in Bristol, UK)
|>




Although some may differ in the terminology here and there, the term
VRLA/MF maybe used in not only the referred Wet Cell as in the GT9B-4,
(Yuasa)YT9B-4, KT9B-4 but has a relevance to AGM and Cell Batteries as
well...and too confuse things, some VRLA are partially gelled like the
GT9B-4, although the Battery Manual does say Sealed WET charged.

The VRLA **valve* only refers to the one way outgassing of the
battery per cell, as in no air get's in but an overcharge will dry it out.

Your right about the 8amps especially in the cold overnight street
parking environment, where flashy lights *trickling* is quite a luxury.

My last battery slowed down to a low charge after 2 years of
inevitable abuses, and when I got a new one for a mere $250, they said it
should last about 2-->3 years...neat huh!

The VRLA GT9B-4 in the manual lists so many dont's, that using it is
almost a no-no.....and when charging, it insists on a consistent charge, not
a regular Optima/Car trickle charger that conditions and alternately floats,
but a *consistent* charge...it does say no regular automatic
chargers...that's a lot of constrictive parameters, but I try to play by
those rules.

Bob
--
Triad Productions-Fantalla�~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
WWW mirror>> http://boblacasse.150m.com
From: Jones on 27 Feb 2007 13:57
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:51:16 -0800, �rkba(a)ca.rkba.cid declaimed the
> following in alt.scooter:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:16:13 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed(a)ix.netcom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> So the magneto does recharge, but usually not enough...it should read
>> some 12.8v as a full charge...12.4v means recharge, and 12v means a new battery.
>>
What do you think of the idea of putting one of those solar panel
chargers on whilst the bike is standing after commute in the a.m.??

--
Biking for 37 years.
GOM
From: matt weber on 27 Feb 2007 17:38
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:51:16 -0800, �rkba(a)ca.rkba.cid wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:16:13 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed(a)ix.netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>|>So far, I've gone two weeks without a "tick, tick, tick"... But on a
>|>cold evening leaving work (46degF according to instruments) the cranking
>|>took longer than usual, and the gauge read 9.8v after the engine
>|>started. 55degF the next morning (near noon, I work late) it started and
>|>showed ~12v.
>
> So the magneto does recharge, but usually not enough...it should read
>some 12.8v as a full charge...12.4v means recharge, and 12v means a new battery.
Actually a fully charged battery should be 13.2 volts if it is lead
acid. (Many maintenance free batteries are actually lead-calcium, and
run a bit higher). As a result, the charging voltage really needs to
get in the 14-15v range to provide effective charging.

Magneto provides spark, not charge. There should be an alternator,
most motorcycles these days don't use magnetto's, and haven't for a
long time. The main advantage of magnetto ignition is you don't need a
battery, EVER....
>
> If your going down to 9.8v overnight, the battery is toast and should be
>replaced, using the old battery as a Computer UPS backup battery were it will
>stay charged all the time..
>
>|> Biggest concern now is that my stop&go commute spends too much time
>|>not charging (system doesn't put out enough voltage to charge until
>|>2000+ RPM). I've started taking the freeway route just to avoid idling.
>
>
> That "tick, tick, tick" or more like a "ratchet" sound, is when the
>battery is too low and usually won't start at that point.....the sound itself is
>some starter relay knock on newer bikes.

The starter power even on a 300cc engine is about 30 amps, much more
for larger engines. The wire run from the battery to the switch to the
starter would be too long, and require exceptionally heavy wire (6
gauge or so). So you can keep the leads from the battery to the
starter very short by putting a starter relay (technically, contactor)
right next to the starter, and then the start switch only has to
handle the current to operate the relay, a faction of an amp. However
if the voltage drops to low, it may not be enough to hold the
contactor in, so you hear it clicking. You close the starter switch,
the relay closes, the current draw from the starter however causes the
voltage to go to low to hold the contactor in, and it drops out,
disconnecting the starter, with the starter load gone, the voltage
comes back up, the contactor closes again.. repeat ad nauseum.....
> The single press of the starter switch "ratchet" sound from the starter
>relay is much different from the starter relay "one click" in older bikes,
>which was difficult to notice at each press of the starter switch.

From: Jones on 28 Feb 2007 04:57
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:57:04 +0000, Jones
> <wp.jonesspam(a)btinternespamt.com> declaimed the following in
> alt.scooter:
>
>
>> What do you think of the idea of putting one of those solar panel
>> chargers on whilst the bike is standing after commute in the a.m.??
>
> Haven't seen any that fold up small enough to be useful, without
> risking damage in transit.
That's a fair point..... hadn't taken that into consideration. How
about upgrading those parts that charge the battery? (not a techy so
have no idea what those parts may be!)

--
Biking for 37 years.
GOM
From: GaZ on 28 Feb 2007 07:20

"Jones" <wp.jonesspam(a)btinternespamt.com> wrote in message
news:hLydnQLm2oJb4nnYnZ2dnUVZ8sfinZ2d(a)bt.com...
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:51:16 -0800, �rkba(a)ca.rkba.cid declaimed the
>> following in alt.scooter:
>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:16:13 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber
>>> <wlfraed(a)ix.netcom.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> So the magneto does recharge, but usually not enough...it should read
>>> some 12.8v as a full charge...12.4v means recharge, and 12v means a new
>>> battery.
>>>
> What do you think of the idea of putting one of those solar panel chargers
> on whilst the bike is standing after commute in the a.m.??
>
> --
> Biking for 37 years.
> GOM

Well I miss the old kickstart. It must be my age I think


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