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From: George W Frost on 24 Nov 2009 00:03 "theo" <theodoreb(a)bigpond.com.au> wrote in message news:253b4ba9-ca85-4d16-985b-2e13c9dad0fb(a)z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com... On Nov 23, 8:55 am, "George W Frost" <georgewfr...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > "theo" <theodo...(a)bigpond.com.au> wrote in message > In WA moped officially means > > Moped > A motorcycle that has a propelling engine having a piston > displacement not exceeding 50 cc and which is designed so as to be > capable of a speed not exceeding 60 kilometres per hour. > > Licence Class R-N Minimum age 16. My 15 yo grandson has a learners > permit for this class at the moment. He will be able to get his > licence next May when he turns 16. Meanwhile he can ride around on L's > as long as his mum or dad are with him. > > Theo > > ***************************** > > On a moped ?? In WA as I believe in QLD, you must have an accompanying 'instructor' when on L plates. The law says that that person may be riding another motor cycle or be a pillion on the learners bike. I don't think I've ever seen the second option exercised. Theo ******************************** Just trying to visualize a 15year old riding a moped with his mother on the back.
From: Zebee Johnstone on 24 Nov 2009 00:07 In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:25:32 +1100 Kevin Gleeson <kevingleeson(a)imagine-it.com.au> wrote: > Not nerecessily. Training people to not park 2m from a corner or > learning how to reverse park is not going to save many lives as far as > I can see. I still don't see that bit of paper doing anything but keep > track of cars, creating revenue, etc. The fuckwits that die from > stupidity are often unlicenced anyway, so that bit of paper didn't > save the stats did it? I'd say the majority of drivers who die are licenced. (We know a high percentage of fatal motorcycle crashes are unlicenced but that's cos dirt bikes get counted if they are within spitting distance of a road) What we don't know is how many would die if we didn't have licences. Is whatever it takes to get a licence stopping them dying? As new drivers are over-represented in crash stats I dunno it is. Zebee
From: George W Frost on 24 Nov 2009 00:18 "Kevin Gleeson" <kevingleeson(a)imagine-it.com.au> wrote in message news:tsnmg5hkevmhs93b12doqe7a050p5aub20(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:29:43 +0930, "Pietro" <noone(a)dontbesilly.com> > wrote: > >>"Kevin Gleeson" <kevingleeson(a)imagine-it.com.au> wrote in message >>news:k2img5lo4mitqs30idi030c36ca344364l(a)4ax.com... >>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:37:11 +1100, Diogenes <cynic(a)society.sux.ok> > > Not nerecessily. Training people to not park 2m from a corner or > learning how to reverse park is not going to save many lives as far as > I can see. Now Kev, you are not trying to say that all drivers can reverse park are you? Training people to reverse park, doesn't automatically make them into a great reverase parker. Yet, they still seem to get their piece of paper I would make a guesstimation that only 15% of drivers can revers park properly So, with that rate, how many of them can actually drive properly? Too many learner drivers are getting through the testing system with only the basic knowledge of driving abilities Make them work harder for it and pass all tests with no demerits at all. None of this : "Oh, you missed the complete stop at the sign and almost hit the pedestrian, but you were great at driving in a straight line so, here is your licence" >I still don't see that bit of paper doing anything but keep > track of cars, creating revenue, etc. The fuckwits that die from > stupidity are often unlicenced anyway, so that bit of paper didn't > save the stats did it?
From: Diogenes on 24 Nov 2009 00:36 On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:10:24 +0930, "Pietro" <noone(a)dontbesilly.com> wrote: >"Diogenes" <cynic(a)society.sux.ok> wrote in message >news:efdmg5tnovfddv0hkqnd9bhun7150nb3ac(a)4ax.com... >> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:35:38 GMT, Andrew >> <amckNOSPAM3047(a)telNOSPAMstra.com> wrote: > ><snip> > >> Hence my question to Zebee (to which he, although he is a great bloke, >> has not yet replied.) > >Maybe that is because you directed your question to alx - who has in fact >replied... Maybe if you ACTUALLY read my message PROPERLY, you'll see that it was reponding to Zebee's comment. ================= Onya bike Gerry
From: Diogenes on 24 Nov 2009 00:51
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:46:35 +1100, Kevin Gleeson <kevingleeson(a)imagine-it.com.au> wrote: >On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:37:11 +1100, Diogenes <cynic(a)society.sux.ok> >wrote: > >>On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:35:38 GMT, Andrew >><amckNOSPAM3047(a)telNOSPAMstra.com> wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:25:01 +1100, Diogenes wrote: >>> >>>> On Nov 22, 8:51�pm, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: In >>>> aus.motorcycles on Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:15:45 -0800 (PST) >>>> >>>>> �It isn't as if it has before. >>>> >>>> Huh? Are you seriously arguing that licensing (of any kind) has not >>>> solved any problems? >> >>>I think the argument is rather that the current road toll is made up >>>(mainly) of licensed riders and drivers, their unwitting passengers, >>>other innocent road users and equally innocent bystanders. If licensing >>>car and bike users still leaves a road toll, why would licensing cyclists >>>achieve anything? >> >>You really need me to explain that to you? >> >>[sigh] D'oh... OK, here we go: I posit that the licensing of drivers >>and motorcycle riders has resulted in a death toll far lower than the >>one we would get if no licensing were required. >I dunno how you can claim that. I tend to agree with it but there is >no logical sequence I can see that goes from someone having a licence >to lowering of death toll. >I can see a logical sequence from training >to lowering of death toll, but unless that licence is made out of >bullet proof armour, it makes not a smeg of difference. > >So yes, I really do need you to explain it to me. Well, Kev, me old mate, I think it's fair to say that licencing brings with it the applicant's need to demonstrate a reasonably detailed knowledge and understanding of the road rules. With me so far? Good. Now, I think it is also fair to say that if no licencing regime existed, things would get pretty chaotic on the roads, and this would arguably lead to a greater death toll. What's so hard to understand? ================= Onya bike Gerry |