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From: noauth on 14 Feb 2010 16:54
http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ron-liechtys-forum-nokia-blog/2006/12/19/linux-and-outlaw-motorcycle-gangs

<QUOTE>
Linux and Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs
Nokia Ron | 19 December, 2006 22:15

In every society there are those that go against the mainstream. In
computers it is the Linux users, in motorcycle clubs it is the biker
gangs. These groups rarely achieve more than ten percent popularity of the
total field. In fact, they call outlaw biker gangs �Ten Percenters�
because they make up ten percent of all motorcycle clubs. A recent article
in ComputerWorld�s online magazine questions if Linux will ever become a
popular operating system for mobile devices. I agree with the article not
that I don�t like Linux but I think it will always limit itself to a ten
percent solution.

Most of the reasons I think Linux is always going to be limited, are the
same things that make Linux so good. It is fully open, which means that
anyone can create a hack for it but once in the base code that hack may
never be improved. Open source guarantees a continual process for adding
features and making improvements. However, this process is very
bureaucratic and takes longer to enact new features. There are many
feature but the features may only work well (if at all) on a few systems.
However, the biggest reason I don�t see Linux being more than a ten
percent answer is that it has lost innovation and has became a means to
copy someone else�s ideas. I will grant you that a mobile device OS is
not going to be stuck with some of the handicaps as the desktop OS has.
But will it still be an open Linux or is it going to be closer to
Apple�s UNIX system, open in only the broadest interpretation.
</QUOTE>

From: Lusotec on 14 Feb 2010 20:27
noauth wrote:
> http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ron-liechtys-forum-nokia-
> blog/2006/12/19/linux-and-outlaw-motorcycle-gangs
>
> <QUOTE>
> Linux and Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs
> Nokia Ron | 19 December, 2006 22:15
>
> In every society there are those that go against the mainstream. In
> computers it is the Linux users, in motorcycle clubs it is the biker
> gangs. These groups rarely achieve more than ten percent popularity of the
> total field. In fact, they call outlaw biker gangs �Ten Percenters�
> because they make up ten percent of all motorcycle clubs. A recent article
> in ComputerWorld�s online magazine questions if Linux will ever become a
> popular operating system for mobile devices. I agree with the article not
> that I don�t like Linux but I think it will always limit itself to a ten
> percent solution.

Bad comparison and the base argument can be easily disproved with simple
logic. If the above argument was valid then *no* product could enter a
*existing* market with a competing product and get any significant
market/user share, since all products start with *zero* market/user share
and obviously are not mainstream at that point. The existence of products
that conquerer a significant market/user share from previous dominant and
competing products proves the argument false.

Also, GNU/Linux has achieved far more than 1% in many markets and thus the
"going against mainstream" makes little sense on that account alone. Even if
considering the desktop alone where the GNU/Linux user share is small the
"go against the mainstream" does not fit very well.

My experience with GNU/Linux did not start as a desktop OS but as a
server/grid OS. Even more than 10 years ago, GNU/Linux was already shinning
in that role. This was especially obvious when compared with the Windows OSs
of the time.

As a student and developer, it made perfect sense to try GNU/Linux on the
desktop since having the same OS for the developing and production machines
made testing and debugging much easier. Thus my GNU/Linux became my choice
of desktop OS, not "go against the mainstream" but for practical reasons.

I know *many* other GNU/Linux user that use it for their desktop OS not
because their are "against the mainstream" but because they do their work on
it and it does works for their needs.

> Most of the reasons I think Linux is always going to be limited, are the
> same things that make Linux so good. It is fully open, which means that
> anyone can create a hack for it but once in the base code that hack may
> never be improved. Open source guarantees a continual process for adding
> features and making improvements. However, this process is very
> bureaucratic and takes longer to enact new features.

"bureaucratic"?! "takes longer to enact new features"?! What is he talking
about?

> There are many
> feature but the features may only work well (if at all) on a few systems.
> However, the biggest reason I don�t see Linux being more than a ten
> percent answer is that it has lost innovation and has became a means to
> copy someone else�s ideas.

So many of the most talked about new features of the newer OS X and Windows
Vista/7 OSs where already present in GNU/Linux OSs. Some of FOSS strong
points are the innovation and creativity. If there is any critic to be made
for too many FOSS is that the good ideas are not polished in to a fully
matured product. Understandably, the developers find it more interesting to
focus on new features than working on documentation, improving UI,
implementing less interesting features, etc.

> I will grant you that a mobile device OS is
> not going to be stuck with some of the handicaps as the desktop OS has.

The Linux kernel is extensively used in mobile devices. Many many millions
of mobile phones, mobile media players, GPS devices, netbooks, and notebooks
are using the Linux kernel as we speak.

> But will it still be an open Linux or is it going to be closer to
> Apple�s UNIX system, open in only the broadest interpretation.
> </QUOTE>

GPL will keep it open, the question to ask is will there be one Linux kernel
or many derived non compatible kernel?

Regards.

From: The Wearin' o' the Green on 14 Feb 2010 21:38
noauth wrote:
> http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ron-liechtys-forum-nokia-blog/2006/12/19/linux-and-outlaw-motorcycle-gangs
>
> <QUOTE>
> Linux and Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs
> Nokia Ron | 19 December, 2006 22:15
>
> In every society there are those that go against the mainstream. In
> computers it is the Linux users, in motorcycle clubs it is the biker
> gangs. These groups rarely achieve more than ten percent popularity of the
> total field. In fact, they call outlaw biker gangs �Ten Percenters�
> because they make up ten percent of all motorcycle clubs.

It's "One percenters".

Sheesh, even a penguin hugger should know that.

SQ
'07 nearly complete Triumph Bonneville Scrambler
'06 Zuk S40
'85 Dnepr MT-11
From: Rex Ballard on 14 Feb 2010 23:01
On Feb 14, 4:54 pm, noauth <a...(a)remailer.gabrix.ath.cx> wrote:

Yet another two-bit blogger with no credentials posted his "expert
opinion" on Linux, based solely on research provided by Microsoft and
it's proponents.

> http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ron-liechtys-forum-nokia-blog/2006/...

> <QUOTE>
> Linux and Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs
> Nokia Ron | 19 December, 2006 22:15

> In every society there are those that go against the mainstream. In
> computers it is the Linux users, in motorcycle clubs it is the biker
> gangs. These groups rarely achieve more than ten percent popularity of the
> total field. In fact, they call outlaw biker gangs “Ten Percenters”
> because they make up ten percent of all motorcycle clubs.

The key element of the "Ten Percenters" is that they engage in
CRIMINAL activities, such as drug dealing, violence, and racist
demonstrations. Sonny Barger was a racist, a speed dealer, and known
for a violent temper. His son Chris is very active in helping people
RECOVER from drug addiction, encourages negotiation, and discourages
the drug trade. He quit his role as leader of the WarLords and became
a drug councilor.

Linux does not involve illegal activities. It's just an emerging
technology. I remember when NOBODY used CB radios or ham radios.
Then one day a trucker came into my store and told he he used his CB
Radio to help find police speed traps by asking truckers from the
other direction about the road ahead. More important than the speed
traps were construction problems, accidents, and other problems that
would result in costly delays that could be avoided by choosing
alternative routes or taking a meal break during the clean-up.

Eventually CB-Radios gave way to mobile phones, and later the
technology for cellular phones evolved. It took nearly 30 years for
cell phones with built-in computers to find their ways into the
pockets and purses of millions of people all over the world. Today,
cell phones have found their way into the hands of billions of people
all over the world. In many parts of the world, the cell phone is
also the access to the Internet.

> A recent article
> in ComputerWorld’s online magazine questions if Linux will ever become a
> popular operating system for mobile devices. I agree with the article not
> that I don’t like Linux but I think it will always limit itself to a ten
> percent solution.

Linux maintains a very low profile, word of mouth promotion, and the
only requirement that even approaches brand recognition is a
requirement that devices that use Linux provide a link on their web
site showing how to access the GPL portions of the source code.

Linux is already available in numerous cell phones, but Embedded Linux
has several different names, and competes with several other versions
of embedded UNIX and UNIX API based real time operating systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_operating_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTLinux
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VxWorks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_Linux
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMo_Foundation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMo_Foundation#Core_members

You may be using Linux and not know it. Here are some devices that
run Linux

Commercial embedded hardware and platforms

* Motorola mobile telephones, generally based on MontaVista Linux,
include the RAZR² V8, ROKR E2, ROKR E6, A780, E680, A910, A1200, U9,
E8, MOTOZINE ZN5 and others
* MontaVista Software including MontaVista Linux, Mobilinux,
Carrier Grade Edition, and Professional Edition
* Openmoko's Neo 1973 or FreeRunner
* Nokia's N900 N810 N800 770
* Android
* Linksys WRT54G version 4 or earlier
* Panasonic P901i and NEC N901ic mobile phone
* Philips LPC3180
* UTstarcom [DV007]
* Digi Connect ME and ConnectCore modules
* gumstix basix, connex and verdex
* Cisco MDS and Nexus switches
* LCD and plasma TVs from LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony [2]
* TomTom GPS navigation systems
* Armadeus Systems i.MX based modules: APF9328 and APF27
* Amazon Kindle
* Evelin BSP is a Linux distribution supporting several boards
(GEAM6425 included)


> Most of the reasons I think Linux is always going to be limited, are the
> same things that make Linux so good. It is fully open, which means that
> anyone can create a hack for it but once in the base code that hack may
> never be improved.

History has shown the opposite to be true. Even Linus' "sacred code"
- the scheduler, was eventually replaced by the scheduler used in
IBM's mainframes. Ironically, one of the reasons IBM gave Linux the
code - was because the code was protected by the GPL.

> Open source guarantees a continual process for adding
> features and making improvements. However, this process is very
> bureaucratic and takes longer to enact new features.

However, it is far LESS beaurocratic than the processes required to
even consider beginning enhancements to proprietary software. Most
corporate R&D departments are very fussy about making sure that funded
efforts have a relatively short term return. This was one of the
reasons why BSD leap-frogged AT&T Unix, and ultimately AT&T had to
license the BSD code to remain competitive. Many other UNIX vendors,
such as Sun, IBM, and HP incorporated BSD libraries, APIs, and
applications even before the official release of System V Release 4
which contained all of the BSD (Open Source) code.

Many of those who contributed to BSD were never compensated in any way
by any of the commercial vendors. As a result, nearly all of them
contributed the same or better code to the GNU project. This GNU code
was then enhanced to the point where it was superior to the versions
marketed in the proprietary versions. Many Proprietary versions of
UNIX now support the gcc compiler, glibc libraries, X11R6 programming
models, including the ICCCM and many also support Qt and Gnome toolkit
libraries. The Apache server and the Mozilla based browser has become
almost mandatory in nearly all versions of Linux and Unix, including
the BSD variants.

> There are many
> feature but the features may only work well (if at all) on a few systems.

That was true 15 years ago, but over the last 10 years especially,
more and more OEMs have become acutely aware of the importance of
supporting Linux, providing Linux drivers, and using chip-sets that
are supported by Linux or have good Linux drivers. The most dramatic
demonstration came with the release of Vista. When Vista was first
released, to get the full experience, including the AERO graphics, the
computer needed to have a DirectX-9 video chip-set. Because of
agreements with Microsoft, the chipset makers had not implemented
Linux drivers for OpenGL interfaces to the chipset. The irony is that
these "premium" computers, initially the most expensive in the store,
often costing as much as twice the price of more "generic" Linux
friendly computers.

The problem was that these computers consistently failed to pass the
evaluation tests of most of the largest corporations who had corporate
mandates to support Linux as well as Windows XP in addition to Vista.
The net was that inventory of these "Vista Only" computers literally
"rotted" on the shelf, eventually falling to prices as low as half the
price of the "Linux Ready" laptop and desktop machines.

> However, the biggest reason I don’t see Linux being more than a ten
> percent answer is that it has lost innovation and has became a means to
> copy someone else’s ideas.

More accurately, the kernel and it's foundation libraries have become
the foundation for a number of outstanding breakthrough technologies.
Much the way UNIX became a foundation for the Internet, the World Wide
Web, on-line databases, and business to business integrations. Linux
servers have already provided the foundations for clusters, grids, and
clouds. These technologies would have cost $billions to develop using
traditional corporate R&D, but the low cost of Linux, Open Source
Software, and the other "foundation" tools has made it possible for
highly skilled computer professionals to engage in research in areas
of personal interest such as Linux.

> I will grant you that a mobile device OS is not going to be stuck with some of the handicaps as the desktop OS has.

The main handicap the desktop OS has to deal with is that Microsoft
has deals with OEMs in which each OEM must make a minimum commitment
that actually exceeds projected sales. Furthermore, the OEM license
requires that the OEM preinstall Windows on each machine they ship,
and that the OEM get Microsoft's prior written approval to make any
alteration in the start-up sequence from power-on to the final
configuration of the fully running and fully functional desktop.
Every application installed, either in the image, or as an
installation shortcut - has to be approved by Microsoft.
Historically, Microsoft has ONLY approved "dual-boot" and other "dual
function" configuration when Linux or UNIX has already established the
market. For example, the Apple Mac was selling successfully before
Microsoft agreed to let Apple install Windows. In order to maintain
some kind of presence, and maintain it's 99.9% of the market bragging
rights, Microsoft permitted Apple to offer Windows in dual-boot and
virtualized configuration. Another company that had already
established a fairly substantial market of exclusively Linux computers
was allowed to ship machines configured as dual-boot machines.
Eventually that company became a consulting firm, converting existing
Windows systems to Linux for corporations, often offering Linux with
Windows as a virtual client.

> But will it still be an open Linux or is it going to be closer to
> Apple’s UNIX system, open in only the broadest interpretation.

Even Linux has had no problem working with device makers who want to
keep some of their code proprietary or even secret. In most cases,
the LGPL and GPL licensed software must be disclosed, but all that's
required is a way for owners of the device to get the location of the
source code on the web. But this is only the source code for the GPL,
LGPL, and other mandatory disclosure Open Source code. At the same
time, the use of shared libraries as "plug-ins" or "modules" as well
as bridge libraries such as glibc allow proprietary code to be
combined into a package or device that works very well with a variety
of devices.

Ironically, one of the other advantages of Linux is that there is such
fierce competition, not just between distributions, but even between
options included within a distributions. Linux users can usually
chose any combination of KDE and GNOME applications, can have BOTH XP/
Vista style menus or Windows Classic type menus, as well as the
ability to add drawers, network connectivity, applications, gadgets,
and an almost infinate variety of ways to manage and quickly access
any of hundreds of applications as quickly as possible.

Most Windows users have already learned that there are advantages to
FireFox for many situations and enjoy the benifits of having two
competing browsers on their desktops. They enjoy the benefits of
multiple competitive media viewers. They enjoy the benefits of
multiple text editors such as notepad and write as well as Open Source
options such as OpenOffice and even cygwin.

Rex Ballard
Senior IT Architect
http://www.open4success.org

From: High Plains Thumper on 15 Feb 2010 12:39
The Wearin' o' the Green wrote:
> noauth wrote:
>
>> http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ron-liechtys-forum-nokia-blog/2006/12/19/linux-and-outlaw-motorcycle-gangs
>>
>> <QUOTE>
>> Linux and Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs
>> Nokia Ron | 19 December, 2006 22:15
>>
>> In every society there are those that go against the mainstream. In
>> computers it is the Linux users, in motorcycle clubs it is the
>> biker gangs. These groups rarely achieve more than ten percent
>> popularity of the total field. In fact, they call outlaw biker
>> gangs �Ten Percenters� because they make up ten percent of all
>> motorcycle clubs.
>
> It's "One percenters".
>
> Sheesh, even a penguin hugger should know that.

"noauth" is a pseudo-nym used by anonymising remailer servers. Looks
like someone is attempting to compare Linux users with outlaw status.

Non-rider trolls are getting desperate for attention.

--
HPT
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