A paradoxical thought experiment
in [Motorcycles]
|
From: S'mee on 8 Jul 2010 15:05 On Jul 7, 8:36 pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.m...(a)example.invalid> wrote: > > When the sidecar wheel is off the ground you have a two wheel > > motorcycle steering dynamics. > > No, I'm afraid not. :-) > > Solo: counter-steer > Sidecar: steer Wrong...but I see others have explained WHY you are mistaken. 8^)
From: S'mee on 8 Jul 2010 15:49 On Jul 8, 11:55 am, Twibil <nowayjo...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 8, 4:18 am, "Vito" <v...(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > I don't think so. A bike must be forced to lean, either by 'body english' > > or counter-steering. > > Oh dear. > > Note: Left to it's own devices, a non-sidecar bike will fall right > over. And this is equally true whether said bike is moving or at rest. > > It's only the kickstand when at rest, or the rider's constant > corrections when moving, that keep it upright. Not true, not true at all. Below a given speed it can fall over. BUT past that threshold (about where countersteering takes over) Gyroscopic precession and gyroscopic forces would prove you wrong. Sorry...that's physics for you.
From: S'mee on 8 Jul 2010 15:50 On Jul 8, 12:47 pm, Twibil <nowayjo...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 8, 11:05 am, Mark Olson <ols...(a)tiny.invalid> wrote: > > > > > A riderless bike will happily stay upright so long as it is moving. > > Put a throttle lock on it and give it open space and it will go > > until it runs out of gas. > > Only on some ideal -but unreal- perfectly flat surface that extends > forever. Wrong again...it can and will change direction due to impacts with imperfections but that's about it. > In real life, on real roads, a riderless bike will fall over rather > quickly. No it wont.
From: Beauregard T. Shagnasty on 8 Jul 2010 16:15 tomorrow(a)erols.com wrote: > "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote: >> Ben Kaufman wrote: >>> When the sidecar wheel is off the ground you have a two wheel >>> motorcycle steering dynamics. >> >> No, I'm afraid not. � :-) >> >> Solo: � � counter-steer >> Sidecar: �steer > > BZZZT. Wrong. Having "flown" the car on both sidecar rigs I've > owned, once the sidecar is in the air, and as long as it is in the > air, the motorcycle steers via counter-steering (albeit quite > awkwardly). It should be intuitively obvious, bit if it isn't to > you, just try it - it will be very obvious upon practical > application. BZZZT. Awkward!!! -- -bts -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
From: tomorrow on 8 Jul 2010 16:18
On Jul 8, 4:15 pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.m...(a)example.invalid> wrote: > tomor...(a)erols.com wrote: > > "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote: > >> Ben Kaufman wrote: > >>> When the sidecar wheel is off the ground you have a two wheel > >>> motorcycle steering dynamics. > > >> No, I'm afraid not. :-) > > >> Solo: counter-steer > >> Sidecar: steer > > > BZZZT. Wrong. Having "flown" the car on both sidecar rigs I've > > owned, once the sidecar is in the air, and as long as it is in the > > air, the motorcycle steers via counter-steering (albeit quite > > awkwardly). It should be intuitively obvious, bit if it isn't to > > you, just try it - it will be very obvious upon practical > > application. > > BZZZT. Awkward!!! Yes, very much so! (But really the only thing about sidecars that I personnaly found to be fun.) |