How Much Lean Will a Croozer Take?
in [Motorcycles]
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From: Odinn on 4 Jun 2010 09:49 Datesfat Chicks wrote: > > > Kind of a newbie question ..., Honda Shadow 600 ... > > From time to time I'll hit a freeway exit curve or something similar > carrying too much speed. Because I'm not 16 and riding a sportbike, it > might be 60 when 40 is appropriate rather than 140 when 40 is appropriate. > > 99.9% of the time, I don't do it. > > And when I do do it, 99.9% of the time as soon as I realize what I'm > about to do, I'll brake aggressively before I'm forced to turn ... > problem solved, but inelegantly. > > However, once in a while I do really carry too much speed. Once when I > did it I didn't quite scrape the pegs, but I was leaned over quite far > enough and the exit ramp was paved in blacktop and I had my mental > fingers crossed that the tires were going to hold. > > Anyway, here are my questions: > > a)How far can I go over before the tires let go? On dry concrete can I > scrape the pegs reliably? The bike will lean much further than scraping the pegs, the pegs should fold some before the tires loose traction. Use the scraping of the peg as your gauge. Just barely scraping, you have plenty of grip left, scraping hard, you're close to your limit. > > b)If it happens, how does it happen? (My guess is that the rear end > slides out and you low-side onto the ground. I also would guess there > is no warning. But I'm perhaps wrong.) No, you are not wrong, and there will be a little warning, but not much. -- Odinn RCOS #7 SENS BS #154 Nothing but net to reply
From: Datesfat Chicks on 4 Jun 2010 09:55 "TOG(a)Toil" <totallydeadmailbox(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:471159e1-a4f5-47fe-bc28-37ec414d85df(a)e5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... >> >> b)If it happens, how does it happen? (My guess is that the rear end >> slides >> out and you low-side onto the ground. I also would guess there is no >> warning. But I'm perhaps wrong.) >> > >How long is a piece of string? So many variables - just how much >ground clearance you've got, how sticky the tyres are, how grippy the >road surface is, etc etc. > >As a rough rule of thumb, cruisers have much less ground clearance >than sports bikes or even traditional-style naked roadsters. Some have >quite a bit and handle really well - Moto-Guzzi's California[1] can >give quite a few sports bikes a bit of a shock - but them's the >general facts. > >Next, it depends on what touches down first. Sports and other bikes >have 'hero blobs' on the footrests which are designed to touch down >before anything else, and they can be worn down a lot, and the >footrests will fold anyway, so not much danger there. Cruisers often >have footboards, and those fold up: really, you do get a lot of >warning. > >Where it gets tricky is when something more solid touches down. In >days of yore, it would be things like sidestand and centre stand >tangs. Again, there's a surprising amount of flexibility there. But if >you start touching down anything hard that's rigidly mounted to the >chassis, you can get in deep trouble. Push it too hard and you will >indeed crash. > >Also in answer to your question: it's generally the rear wheel that >gets levered off the ground first. DAMHIKIJK,OK? But not always. The nature of my question is to ask when the tires will let go, and if they give any warning. My assumption was that the tires might let go on some surfaces before I scrape the pegs. Blacktop and asphalt, naturally, raise concerns. So I wasn't asking about scraping the pegs as a warning sign -- I was asking about warning signs that the tires are going to let go (i.e. transition from static to kinetic friction). As for my arrangement ... my pegs have little round-ended bolts at the bottom (I previously called them "feelers", but maybe "hero blobs" is the right name). The pegs pivot upward. I don't have footboards. I've only ground the pegs a small number of times. I used to do it occasionally getting onto the freeway when there was a curved entrance ramp (but I've improved my technique since then). The other time I did it, surprisingly, was in an experienced rider's course. We did some of the box manuevers, and I just had to show off. I entered the box so fast I made the instructor wince and did the maneuvers fast enough to scrape a peg once. (It comes from having had the same bike for a few years and messing around with it a lot.) Anyway, the instructor had no coaching whatsoever to offer me, but he did the other riders. I made my point. But I really didn't have much to lose. On a $2,000 Honda, I really didn't care if I dumped it. Some of the other guys had $15K Harleys. They cared. Anyway, you subtly answered the wrong question. Datesfat
From: ? on 4 Jun 2010 11:08 On Jun 4, 6:50 am, "Neil [the English Mental Patient] Murray" <totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > No, Dates, *don't* do this, because he's talking bollocks again. Neil [the English Mental Patient] Murray *knows* bollocks. He's been tea-bagged many, many, many times. Also, when thinking about maximum lean angle and suspension compression which might reduce available maximum lean angle, you should be aware of obnoxious hogbacks in the pavement, which mostly occur on windy mountain roads. I used to scrape my GT-750's footpegs, side, and center stand on mountain roads, making sparks fly, and I also scraped the factory- flattened part of the exhaust pipes at far less than a 45 degree lean angle. I installed a Kerker competition exhaust system on my GS1100 when I took it to Willow Springs and was amazed to see that I was slightly scraping the lowest part of the megaphone going around the 450-foot radius Turn 2 at 80 mph. Or maybe I was just touching it lightly down at 100 mph exiting T2, and that's part of why the rear tire stepped out? Or was it because I had 120 horsepower on tap? Quien sabe? Modern sportbikes have everything tucked up like tight testicles, nothing that would interest Neil [the English Mental Patient] Murray.
From: TOG on 4 Jun 2010 11:18 On 4 June, 14:55, "Datesfat Chicks" <datesfat.chi...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > "TOG(a)Toil" <totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message > > > So I wasn't asking about scraping the pegs as a warning sign -- I was asking > about warning signs that the tires are going to let go (i.e. transition from > static to kinetic friction).> > Anyway, you subtly answered the wrong question. > Apologies Answer to that is simple: you can't. Sometimes you might get a little squirm, sometimes the tyres might just give you a little slide before gripping again, but when tyres let go when you're nicely cranked over, they let go, as generations of racers will testify :-) Worst of all is when they let go hard and then grip again. Hello, highside. The real point is that cruisers will run out of ground clearance way before this happens. And when they run out of ground clearance, what I outlined above is what happens, so the 'right' question is pretty academic.
From: Road Glidin' Don on 4 Jun 2010 11:35
On Jun 4, 9:08 am, "?" <breoganmacbr...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: <snip> A lot of words written to avoid admitting you were full of it. |