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From: steve robinson on 10 May 2010 17:04 Krusty wrote: > Champ wrote: > > > On Mon, 10 May 2010 19:57:45 +0100, steve auvache > > <dont_spam(a)thecow.me.uk> wrote: > > > > >>> >One problem we have is that there are three significant > > parties >>> >involved. > > >>> > > >>> No there are two and an additional bunch of opportunist louts > > who see a >>> not to be missed chance to push their discredited > > minority agendas on a >>> public who did not vote for them. > > > > > > > > Con: 36% > > > > Lab: 29% > > > > Lib: 23% > > > > > > > > Remind me, which one isn't the minority? > > > > > > At least 75% of the voting electorate did not for a party > > > offering PR > > > > er, Steve...Labour were offering electoral reform befoe the > > election. > > Electoral reform, yes. But not PR. Big difference. True reform will be every country within the union gets its own parliament
From: steve robinson on 10 May 2010 17:05 steve auvache wrote: > In article <nergu59sk5tim98nikfllpl9pcjai58p6o(a)4ax.com>, Champ > <news(a)champ.org.uk> writes > > On Mon, 10 May 2010 19:57:45 +0100, steve auvache > ><dont_spam(a)thecow.me.uk> wrote: > > > >>>> >One problem we have is that there are three significant > parties >>>> >involved. > >>>> > >>>> No there are two and an additional bunch of opportunist louts > who see a >>>> not to be missed chance to push their discredited > minority agendas on a >>>> public who did not vote for them. > > > > > > > > Con: 36% > > > > Lab: 29% > > > > Lib: 23% > > > > > > > > Remind me, which one isn't the minority? > > > > > > At least 75% of the voting electorate did not for a party > > > offering PR > > > > er, Steve...Labour were offering electoral reform befoe the > > election. > > Yeah right. I saw that and while I accept they agree some form of > reform is in order I give the claim as much credibility as that > proposed by the Tories, just another wishy washy half promise to > have talks about talks about the agenda for talks and hope it goes > away. > > The reality is that it is not in the political interests of either > of the two main parties to have anything other than a system which > would return results very much in line with what they are now. > Although it may be of more benefit to the left than the right to > have some PR built in and therefore Labour may be slightly more > inclined to make noises about supporting it. Whatever flavour they pick one things for sure were the poor fuckers thats going to foot the bill
From: ogden on 10 May 2010 17:10 Champ wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 2010 21:36:37 +0100, ogden <ogden(a)pre.org> wrote: > > >Champ wrote: > >> On Mon, 10 May 2010 20:39:44 +0100, ogden <ogden(a)pre.org> wrote: > >> > >> >If you want to accuse a party of obstructing a deal to suit their own > >> >interests, accuse the Tories. They're the ones blocking a referendum on > >> >PR > >> > >> And award for the most quickly out-of-date usenet post goes to... > > >What, has something happened in the last half hour or so? > > The tories have offered a referendum, on AV, but that's not PR in your > book, is it. It's not PR in anyone's book. It's a basic variation on FPTP and can actually give an even more distorted result. > I really must read up on the various PR systems, and why AV doesn't > count. Spent 10 minutes on the Electoral Reform Society's web site. They have a section that briefly describes the various systems with pros and cons. -- ogden | gsxr1000 | rgv250
From: malc on 10 May 2010 17:28 steve auvache wrote: > > Not if parliament is at war with itself. If you want strong stable > government you don't want PR. But if it works for the Germans and New Zealand and so on why not here? You still haven't explained why. "Proportional representation voting (PR) is the main rival to plurality-majority voting. Among advanced western democracies it has become the predominant voting system. For instance, in Western Europe, 21 of 28 countries use proportional representation, including Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland." From http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/polit/damy/BeginnningReading/PRsystems.htm OK Greece and Portugal may not be the best examples to use but the rest aren't doing too badly. -- Malc Rusted and ropy. Dog-eared old copy. Vintage and classic, or just plain Jurassic: all words to describe me.
From: Wicked Uncle Nigel on 10 May 2010 17:30
Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, malc <malwhite1(a)blueyonder.co.uk> typed >steve auvache wrote: >> >> Not if parliament is at war with itself. If you want strong stable >> government you don't want PR. > >But if it works for the Germans and New Zealand and so on why not here? You >still haven't explained why. Of course, the ultimate in strong stable government is to be found in China. -- Wicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest" I've always been a man who's open to persuasion |