The best ever 4-stroke vertical twin?
in [Motorcycles]
|
From: S'mee on 16 Jul 2010 10:23 On Jul 16, 12:26 am, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) wrote: > sean_q_ <nos...(a)no.spam> wrote: > > In his usual subtle manner the TOGmeister casually dropped > > the following stun grenade [in "Ok, TOG tell us already, willya?"] > > > > It [Yamaha] built the XS650, the best four-stroke big vertical > > > twin engine *ever* [1] > > > > [1] So good that Triumph used it as a yardstick for the stillborn > > > 900cc Diana twin, and even copied bits of its design wholesale. > > > There is something iconic about the Brit vertical twin, inspiring > > writers to produce idyllic, nostalgic prose such as the following: > > > > Thirty-five years ago I had just gotten out of the Army and played > > > bass in a rock / show band. I did not need reading glasses; > > > I did not have a mortgage; a loving wife, grown kids, > > > or responsibilities. But I did take my first ride on a brand new > > > 1972 Triumph Bonneville. Ah, life can be good. > > > > The memories of throwing a leg over that narrow bench seat > > > and kicking through 650 cc's of British vertical twin motorcycle > > > will forever haunt me. This was the feeling of freedom I had > > > yearned for those two long years in combat boots. Gripping > > > the flat handlebars, I could almost smell the adrenaline > > > as the tachometer steadied down to a vertical twin lope. > > > Gazing down at that beautiful sculptured tank brought > > > a warm feeling to my gut you could not get from the utilitarian > > > kegs attached to other bikes. All the dreams I had while riding > > > by bicycle in junior high came back as I lightly flicked > > > the red Bonnie through every curve I could find. Blue River Rd. > > > became the Isle of Man. Brakes, yeah there were some, > > > but the feeling of flying controlled my right wrist. Stopping > > > did not have near the priority that going did. Life can be > > > very good! > >http://www.epinions.com/review/2002_Triumph_Bonneville/content_415382... > > > Well it seems ironic that some Far Pacific volcanic islanders > > with an in-your-face warrior ethic could make better Brit twins > > than the British could, let alone the Best One Ever. > > > Better even than Kawi's W650...? Over the past 4 years of waiting > > for a W650 to show up for sale I've seen exactly two (2) and > > both for more than I could afford. > > > So then I finally get myself a modern, big-bore Brit vertical twin... > > (er, well, at 850cc it's only medium-sized these days, considering > > the Triumph Thunderbird's 1600cc) ...and then somebody goes and sez > > it's not as good as some 30-year old metric knock-off. Ain't that > > enough to frost yer socks (which, in a Canadian winter, is no mere > > figure of speech). > > > SQ [hrrrumph.] > > Nice piece. The XS650 engine really was/is a superb piece of > engineering. The W650 is interesting, not least for its use of gear > drive for the cam. > > The shame about the XS was that the rest of the bike simply wasn't as > good as the engine, especially the chassis, and you wouldn't get the > sort of feeling that inspired that lyrical piece of writing you've just > quoted. > > The new Bonnie engine is good, but it just lacks the rumble and spirit > of those old Bonnies, Beezas, Ajays etc. And the XS. > > Did you know that in the 1970s Norton was that ---> <--- close to > clinching a deal to buy XS650 engines to put into the Commando chassis? > Now *that* would have been a bike. > So if you built your own that would be either a Yamton or a Northama? ;^) Sounds like a neat project for you, after all you aren't in your dotage yet.
From: tomorrow on 16 Jul 2010 12:15 On Jul 16, 2:26 am, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) wrote: > Did you know that in the 1970s Norton was that ---> <--- close to > clinching a deal to buy XS650 engines to put into the Commando chassis? Really? Never have heard that before. Where did you learn that? > Now *that* would have been a bike. Ick. I quite liked the featherbed chassis of my Atlas, and someday hope to build a 650cc pre-unit Triton out of one, but the Commando chassis with its isolastics was developed solely to quell the vibrations from the 750cc (and later, 850cc) versions of that (originally 500cc!) Norton vertical twin, and was not nearly so good a chassis as the featherbed. I actually can't think of a much worse combination of a ho-hum British chassis with a ho-hum Japanese motor than an XS-650 engined Commando!
From: tomorrow on 16 Jul 2010 12:16 On Jul 16, 8:52 am, "TOG(a)Toil" <totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > <Confession moment> > > I've always wanted a Panther 660 single. Ditto. Awesome looking machines! (I couldn't bring myself to burden one with a sidecar, though!)
From: The Older Gentleman on 16 Jul 2010 14:07 tomorrow(a)erols.com <tomorrowaterolsdotcom(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jul 16, 2:26 am, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older > Gentleman) wrote: > > > Did you know that in the 1970s Norton was that ---> <--- close to > > clinching a deal to buy XS650 engines to put into the Commando chassis? > > Really? Never have heard that before. Where did you learn that? Some years ago, from a guy called Mike Jackson, who was export director of NVT, back in the day. He now values classic bikes for an auction house, I think. He said that Yamaha was happy to supply the engines. You have to remember that at the time, Norton and Yamaha were quite close, and Norton actually built trail bikes equipped with Yamaha DT engines - Google for the NVT Rambler, if you want. And Yamaha supplied XS750 bikes for a British police force, which Norton kitted out and even badged as Nortons, which was quite funny. Anyway, apparently the whole deal was ready to go. They'd measured up the engines, determined that they'd fit, and maybe even built an example to test the concept. And at the last minute, some NVT honcho decreed that it if couldn't be put on the road for an allegedly unrealistic low price, then it wasn't going to happen. And that was that. > > Now *that* would have been a bike. > > Ick. I quite liked the featherbed chassis of my Atlas, and someday > hope to build a 650cc pre-unit Triton out of one, but the Commando > chassis with its isolastics was developed solely to quell the > vibrations from the 750cc (and later, 850cc) versions of that > (originally 500cc!) Norton vertical twin, and was not nearly so good a > chassis as the featherbed. > > I actually can't think of a much worse combination of a ho-hum British > chassis with a ho-hum Japanese motor than an XS-650 engined Commando! The engine was better than the Norton's in every respect, and the Commando chassis was better than the Yamaha's. I agree that the Featherbed would have been a better frame, but the XS engine is a tall and maybe wouldn't fit. Anyway, the Featherbed frame was history by then. -- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
From: brad herschel on 16 Jul 2010 14:40
Think the distinctive thump of a John Deere 2 lunger farm tractor at work. Speed the beat up 50% for a JAP twin. (think of the Pink Panther's three wheel Morgan with the twin mounted in front of the grill. |