The best ever 4-stroke vertical twin?
in [Motorcycles]
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From: Henry on 23 Jul 2010 09:26 Mark Olson wrote: > The Older Gentleman wrote: >> The Valkyrie sold in single figures, really, and I can't remember if it >> was only ever available as a grey unofficial import. Neighbour has one, >> sourced from Canada, and I covet it, because I think it's a fabulous >> bike. Especially with the aftermarket cans he's got on it. He keeps >> offering me a go on it, and I really must take up the offer because I >> always liked the 1500 Wing from which it was derived. > My brother owned one and I blagged a go on it. Very much grin-inducing > unlike the 1500 Wing which gives the overwhelming impression of sheer > bulk. The Valk is bulky, but in a muscular way, unlike the Bibendum-like > impression given by the Wing. My Valkyrie reminds me of a muscle car with low gears. In first gear, a blip of the throttle will usually spin the rear tire. The engine revs very crisply with a lot of low end torque. I've recently ridden a ZX-14, a hopped up Bandit 1200, and I used to own a CBR1100XX. Although those bikes are much faster than the Valk, they're geared so high that full throttle in first gear doesn't easily spin the tire, but it will power the front wheel up and reach speeds near 70mph. I guess I enjoy the low gears and low end torque more than the hyper speed, but both are a lot of fun... -- "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." -- Albert Einstein. http://911research.wtc7.net http://www.journalof911studies.com/ http://www.ae911truth.org
From: Vito on 23 Jul 2010 09:39 don (Calgary) wrote: >> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:38:55 -0700 (PDT), BryanUT >> <nestle12(a)comcast.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> As a long time, almost exclusive Honda owner I can say that I really >>> don't like the current crop of Hondas, but the fact is, the 305, the >>> 350, 450 and 750, followed by the Goldwing are all landmark >>> motorcycles. It is a crime that Honda is unable to set the bar >>> recently. >> >> They dropped the ball in my mind when they discontinued the >> Nighthawk, the Magna and the Valk all within a couple of years. >> Since then their line up has been bland at best. IMHO it has to do with company "culture". Soichiro was an innovator and bred innovative managers. Now they are retiring, being replaced by "corporate" culture. We'll see no more oval piston GP bikes .......
From: The Older Gentleman on 23 Jul 2010 09:54 Vito <vito(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote: > don (Calgary) wrote: > >> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:38:55 -0700 (PDT), BryanUT > >> <nestle12(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> As a long time, almost exclusive Honda owner I can say that I really > >>> don't like the current crop of Hondas, but the fact is, the 305, the > >>> 350, 450 and 750, followed by the Goldwing are all landmark > >>> motorcycles. It is a crime that Honda is unable to set the bar > >>> recently. > >> > >> They dropped the ball in my mind when they discontinued the > >> Nighthawk, the Magna and the Valk all within a couple of years. > >> Since then their line up has been bland at best. > > IMHO it has to do with company "culture". Soichiro was an innovator and > bred innovative managers. Now they are retiring, being replaced by > "corporate" culture. We'll see no more oval piston GP bikes ....... I don't buy this, really. Honda still produces some technical tours-de-force, but innovation? Dunno. Whether Honda has ever been genuinely innovative is open to question. I think the company has more taken technology and made it work perfectly, and be available to all at a low price. Honda CB750 - innovative because it was the first big across-the-frame four? Well, not if you discount the ultra-rare and costly MVs (although I think the biggest they made at the time were around 600cc). But certainly the first offered to all. But also nothing new in the tech, really. CBX? Not the first six, and the engine was utterly conventional. CX Turbo? First proddy turbo bike, and more of a rolling tech showcase than anything else. Oval piston NR750? Ditto. I still think one of Honda's most innovative bikes was the CX500. OK, so transverse V-twins weren't new, and neither was any of the tech on the bike, but what it showed was incredible clarity of thought. Somebody *really* thought about what a good working all-purpose easy-to-maintain bike should be. For real innovation, I still lean towards Yamaha. And BMW. YMMV etc etc -- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Triumph Street Triple Honda CB400F Suzuki TS250 Suzuki GN250 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom Nothing damages a machine more than an ignoramus with a manual, a can-do attitude and a set of cheap tools
From: Vito on 23 Jul 2010 10:49 The Older Gentleman wrote: >> Vito <vito(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote: >>> IMHO it has to do with company "culture". Soichiro was an >>> innovator and bred innovative managers. Now they are retiring, >>> being replaced by "corporate" culture. We'll see no more oval >>> piston GP bikes ....... >> >> I don't buy this, really. Honda still produces some technical >> tours-de-force, but innovation? Dunno. >> >> Whether Honda has ever been genuinely innovative is open to >> question. I think the company has more taken technology and made it >> work perfectly, and be available to all at a low price. >> >> Honda CB750 - innovative because it was the first big >> across-the-frame four? Well, not if you discount the ultra-rare and >> costly MVs (although I think the biggest they made at the time were >> around 600cc). But certainly the first offered to all. But also >> nothing new in the tech, really. True. Honda's innovation was in manufacturing - as you say bringing existing high tech to the mass market. Perhaps the slowdown can be blamed on y'all Brits .... no new Climax engines to saw in half and no new Spondon frames to copy. Get with it! >> For real innovation, I still lean towards Yamaha. And BMW. YMMV etc >> etc >> BMW??
From: The Older Gentleman on 23 Jul 2010 11:43
Vito <vito(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote: > True. Honda's innovation was in manufacturing - as you say bringing > existing high tech to the mass market. Perhaps the slowdown can be blamed > on y'all Brits .... no new Climax engines to saw in half and no new Spondon > frames to copy. Get with it! Yes, SIR! <fx: brandishes junior hacksaw> > > >> For real innovation, I still lean towards Yamaha. And BMW. YMMV etc > >> etc > >> > BMW?? Well, BMW makes very few changes from year to year, agreed, but when it does make changes, it makes very considered ones that could be called innovative. Think of the first airhead BMW RS fairing. The Telelever and other front ends. The very early use of single-shock and single-sided rear ends. The entire K concept of taking a four and turning it around like that. Then there's the fact that BMW was the first to put ABS on production bikes, and a few other things. Of course, you could equally well say they're not 'innovative' but 'quirky' :-) Either way, I do think BMW is interesting to watch, especially when you see how many things it's done have subsequently been copied by Japan. -- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Triumph Street Triple Honda CB400F Suzuki TS250 Suzuki GN250 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom Nothing damages a machine more than an ignoramus with a manual, a can-do attitude and a set of cheap tools |