Some Car Dealers Will Never Change
in [Motorcycles]
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From: The Older Gentleman on 14 Mar 2010 06:07 don (Calgary) <hd.flhr(a)telus.net> wrote: > Some countries manage to enjoy universal health coverage along with > very generous social programs, without having their citizens pay an > onerous and punitive road tax. Name three of comparable size? Social programmes have to be paid for somehow, unless the country is so amazingly wealthy that government revenues can afford to pay for such programmes with no contribution from the citizens. I can't actually think of any country with an equivalent population to the UK's that fits this bill. I expect some small states with massive oil revenues manage it[1], but that's hardly representative. > I think the UK road tax is as clear of > an example as I have seen, of a government using the global warming > hysteria as a cash grab. I wouldn't disagree. > What would be more disturbing is if the > funds raised in the name of GW are used to fund social programs and > not to reduce GGE. If we go down a similar road in North America I > hope we find a better way to do it than the UK has demonstrated. I doubt it, governments being what they are, but stranger things have happened. [1] Norway is *not* one of these, incidentally. -- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
From: The Older Gentleman on 14 Mar 2010 06:07 tomorrow(a)erols.com <tomorrowaterolsdotcom(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > Fuel consumption and CO2 emissions are inextricably linked. But the > > government relies on manufacturers' figures (as ested and audited). > > Except I drive my 12mpg truck 5,000 miles a year and my 26mpg Miata > 20,000 miles a year, so why should registering the truck cost more? Quite. I'm all in favour of loading the tax directly onto fuel, because I think this is the fairest system, all in all. -- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
From: tomorrow on 14 Mar 2010 09:01 On Mar 14, 6:07 am, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) wrote: > tomor...(a)erols.com <tomorrowaterolsdot...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Mar 13, 2:59 am, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older > > Gentleman) wrote: > > > don (Calgary) <hd.f...(a)telus.net> wrote: > > > > My problem with dealers, even the good ones are the BS fees they add > > > > to the purchase price, such as prep fees, inspections, document fees > > > > and any other BS they can add to the negotiated selling price. > > > > Do they really do this? On this side of the water, the used price is the > > > used price. You *might* have to pay extra for the road tax if this has > > > expired, but that's it. > > > Here in Virginia, when buying used from a dealer, it is not unusual > > for them to tack on a "documentation fee" after you've negotiated a > > price, but they will immediately remove it if you balk; but enough > > people just meekly accept it to make it worth their time to try it. > > If you let them title and register the vehicle, they will add a > > premium onto the DMV fees for such legal niceties, but they do are at > > least providing a service in that case. > > Well, we have an odd vehicle tax system, and Canada (and Virginia, > evidently) have another system of screwing money out of motorists. > Motorists are easy targets everywhere. Actually, I did a poor job of describing the above, That is not a tax; that is just more (or less) money in the dealer's pocket. As far as taxing, in Virginia we have a 3.5% sales tax on the purchase of new or used over-the-road vehicles, it is collected by dealers upon the sale (and forwarded to the state) or collected by the Department of Motor Vehicles upon titling the vehicle in the case of private party transactions. In addition to the sales tax, there is a very nominal titling fee (for over 20 years it was $10; recently raised, iirc, to $20). That is for titling (establishing legal ownership). Registering for road (not required if you are not going to actually operate the vehicle on the public roads, i.e. racebike or showbike that is not ridden or a bike that you might register after a year or two oif modification and/or restoration) is about $40 a year for cars and apx $25 per year for motorcycles, and includes standard license plates (you can pay extra for personalized or "scenic" plates). Then you have a county personal property tax which is typically about 4-5% of the blue book value of the vehicle, paid to the county, not the state, each year. For the past six or seven years, the state has subsidized this tax to the counties via a revenue sharing system, so that the citizens are actually only paying 30% of the tax; the state pays the counties 70% of the tax. Then you have to have each vehicle safety inspected every year, and cars and trucks (motorcycles exempted) emissions tested every two years, if you live in an urban area. Safety inspections cost about $20 for cars and $12-15 for bikes, and emission tests (on rolling dynos) cost about $25-40. Many counties require purchase of a county windshield sticker "proving" that you actually paid your personal property tax to the tune of $20 to $25 per year for each vehicle that you garage in the county. In my case, I have one car, one truck, and (currently) four street motorcycles that keep me pretty busy with licensing, inspections, and taxes!
From: Dean Hoffman on 14 Mar 2010 09:09 The Older Gentleman wrote: > Quite. I'm all in favour of loading the tax directly onto fuel, because > I think this is the fairest system, all in all. > We have a couple taxes in the central U.S. One is a property tax on the vehicle. We pay that annually when registering the vehicle. The other is a fuel tax which is paid automatically at the pump. Oh, and there is a sales tax when buying a new vehicle or on the repair parts.
From: The Older Gentleman on 14 Mar 2010 09:13
tomorrow(a)erols.com <tomorrowaterolsdotcom(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Actually, I did a poor job of describing the above, That is not a > tax; that is just more (or less) money in the dealer's pocket. True. I didn't notice either! > As > far as taxing, in Virginia we have a 3.5% sales tax on the purchase of > new or used over-the-road vehicles, it is collected by dealers upon > the sale (and forwarded to the state) or collected by the Department > of Motor Vehicles upon titling the vehicle in the case of private > party transactions. OK. We have no tax on used vehicle sales at all (though KrustyUS, of course, thinks different). > In addition to the sales tax, there is a very > nominal titling fee (for over 20 years it was $10; recently raised, > iirc, to $20). That is for titling (establishing legal ownership). Ours is free. Just send in the paperwork ro the authorities. But as you say, 20 bucks isn't much. > > Registering for road (not required if you are not going to actually > operate the vehicle on the public roads, i.e. racebike or showbike > that is not ridden or a bike that you might register after a year or > two oif modification and/or restoration) is about $40 a year for cars > and apx $25 per year for motorcycles, and includes standard license > plates (you can pay extra for personalized or "scenic" plates). Ours... can't remember. Free, I think, but obviously you have to pay the vehicle tax (see previous posting) for any vehicle that's used on the road. Electric ones being the exception. > Then > you have a county personal property tax which is typically about 4-5% > of the blue book value of the vehicle, paid to the county, not the > state, each year. We don't have this at all. > For the past six or seven years, the state has > subsidized this tax to the counties via a revenue sharing system, so > that the citizens are actually only paying 30% of the tax; the state > pays the counties 70% of the tax. >Then you have to have each vehicle > safety inspected every year, and cars and trucks (motorcycles > exempted) emissions tested every two years, if you live in an urban > area. Safety inspections cost about $20 for cars and $12-15 for > bikes, and emission tests (on rolling dynos) cost about $25-40. Yeah, we have something similar and priced similarly. Except there's no emissions test for bikes. Vehicles don't require the inspections until they're three years old (trucks, though, require them after one year). > Many > counties require purchase of a county windshield sticker "proving" > that you actually paid your personal property tax to the tune of $20 > to $25 per year for each vehicle that you garage in the county. In my > case, I have one car, one truck, and (currently) four street > motorcycles that keep me pretty busy with licensing, inspections, and > taxes! In this household it's two cars and all the bikes in the sig, so yes, I share your pain. The authorities send out reminders for the annual vehicle tax, but tech inspections are down to you to remember. -- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com |