How to save Harley Davidison
in [Motorcycles]
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From: tomorrow on 16 Jul 2010 12:05 On Jul 16, 7:55 am, "TOG(a)Toil" <totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > On 16 July, 00:02, "don (Calgary)" <hd.f...(a)telus.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 07:40:00 -0700 (PDT), "tomor...(a)erols.com" > > > <tomorrowaterolsdot...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > >On Jul 15, 2:20 am, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older > > >Gentleman) wrote: > > >> don (Calgary) <hd.f...(a)telus.net> wrote: > > >> > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:49:16 -0400, "J. Clarke" > > >> > <jclarke.use...(a)cox.net> wrote: > > > >> > >But what is their objection to getting more customers of a different > > >> > >kind from the ones that they have? > > > >> > So they should manufacture home furniture, because they could get more > > >> > customers of a different kind? > > > >The fact is, that the people who are running Harley-Davidson have > > >demonstrated for the past 29 years that they are pretty good at what > > >they do, and lots of companies have gone under straying from things > > >that they do very, very well. > > > Considering the market they are in and the competition they have to > > face I'd say Harley is a model of success. The very fact HD is the > > most talked about company and their bikes are the most talked about > > machines in this forum speaks to their success. > > > Factor in the Buffoon from Britain telling all who will listen he > > finds it odd HD is not making other styles of bikes and you know they > > are doing something right.- > > Harley is a small volume producer of motorcycles, with their core > market in one single country, which is the US. And this is a US- > centric ng. Does not sell many machines elsewhere in the world. If > your definition of 'success' is 'they sell well here', then fine. > Otherwise you're deluded. Actually, other than when compared to motorcycle manufacturers who build and sell millions of 50cc to 150cc motorcycles in Asia, Harley- Davidson is demonstrably not a small volume producer, and while their core market is the U.S., they sell a significant percentage of their bikes overseas. Harley-Davidson sold 330,619 motorcycles worldwide in 2007, 303,479 in 2008; and 223,023 in 2009. (Interestingly enough, despite the obvius overproduction that presaged the global economic downturn of 2008, Harley-Davidson did not find itself forced to dump its product on the market at prices 40, 50, and 60% below original msrp in order to clear out their glut of inventory, as some other manufacturers have been forced to do in the past!) As an example of a competitor that has been cited in this thread, BMW sold a total of 101,685 motorcycles worldwide in 2008; 87,306 in 2009. Harley-Davidson sold 78,559 motorcycles in international markets exclusive of the U.S. in 2009, some 9,000 motorcycles fewer than BMW produced in total for ALL worldwide markets. BMW also reported that worldwide sales of all 500cc+ motorcycles (which is the market that Harley-Davidson, BMW, Ducati, and Triumph all compete in) "dropped from a 1.5 million unit high in 2007 to 900,000 in 2009 with a more than 30% decline last year (2009) alone." Since Harley sold ~22% of all those 500cc+ motorcycles in 2007, and just under 25% (24.78% by my rough calculations) of all those motorcycles in 2009, I'm not sure how one could support the claim that they are a "small volume producer," again, unless you are comparing their sales of heavyweight motorcycles to other companies' combined sales of lightweight motorcycles, step-thrus, mopeds, scooters, watercraft, and ATVs, in which case H-D is "small volume" and BMW, Ducati, and Triumph are all, I suppose, "infinitesimal volume" producers! Note: Total U.S. on-highway motorcycle sales for 2009 were 357,691 as reported by the Motorcycle Industry Council, and Harley sold 144,464 bikes in the U.S., for a total of 40.4% of on-highway motorcycles, _including_ lightweight (50cc and up) bikes. Hardly the picture of a motorcycle company that needs to be "saved."
From: TOG on 16 Jul 2010 12:28 On 16 July, 17:05, "tomor...(a)erols.com" <tomorrowaterolsdot...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: < snip> > > Since Harley sold ~22% of all those 500cc+ motorcycles in 2007, and > just under 25% (24.78% by my rough calculations) of all those > motorcycles in 2009, I'm not sure how one could support the claim that > they are a "small volume producer," again, unless you are comparing > their sales of heavyweight motorcycles to other companies' combined > sales of lightweight motorcycles, step-thrus, mopeds, scooters, > watercraft, and ATVs, in which case H-D is "small volume" and BMW, > Ducati, and Triumph are all, I suppose, "infinitesimal volume" > producers! > HD *is* a small volume producer, really, and yes, BMW, Ducati and Triumph are even smaller. Moto Guzzi smaller still It's impossible to argue otherwise. I do accept what you say that HD is digging itself out of a hole, though, and I accept that HD is successful in its home market. I'm not the only one who wonders whether depenedence on a single core product can be carried on indefinitely, though. I cited Porsche for a good reason.
From: J. Clarke on 16 Jul 2010 12:11 On 7/16/2010 11:55 AM, TOG(a)Toil wrote: > On 16 July, 16:37, "don (Calgary)"<hd.f...(a)telus.net> wrote: > >> You are no different than the many Harley haters that have cruised >> through this forum, blind to the facts and stubborn in their opinions. > > <chortle> > > You silly sod. I don't hate Harleys at all. In fact, a browse through > this forum will show several references which I made to the effect > that I might actually *buy* one[1]. > > Can't you get *anything* right? > > (For the record, I've loved some I've ridden, like a couple of early > Evos - the Low Rider Convertible sticks in the mind - and a couple > I've hated, like a pre-rubber mount 1200 Sportster which was just > bloody awful, and a 1998 Road King which was positively dangerous.) > > [1] Actually, many moons ago, I put down a deposit on an 883. A > fortnight later a stinging tax bill arrived[2] and that put paid to > that. > [2] Inland Revenue lost my details, sent mail to our old address whose > inhabitants didn't forward it, and when they did find out where we > were sent a huge estimated tax bill which had to be paid and then > reclaimed. Got the money back, but it knocked the 883 on the head and > somehow I never got around to trying to buy another. HoHum. Never drink to excess--it can make you shoot at tax collectors and miss. -- The Notebooks of Lazarus Long
From: Bob Myers on 16 Jul 2010 12:36 don (Calgary) wrote: > Being talked about period is a measure of success for a motorcycle > company. Most non riders think motorcycle, they think Harley. Not unless "being talked about" translates into sales. (In this case it can be argued that it does, but that's beside my point.) The only "measures of success" for a motorcycle company are precisely the same as for any other comany - profitability, shareholder value, and other such purely financial parameters. Those who forget that - at least, those who are actually charged with running a company, and who forget that - and start thinking it's about "mindshare" or "image" or some such as ends in themselves are pretty much always doomed to be the ones leading their companies into oblivion. Bob M.
From: Bob Myers on 16 Jul 2010 12:38
TOG(a)Toil wrote: > And it's the Japanese that puzzle me more about not making other > styles of bikes. Given that the Japanese (assuming you're talking about the Big Four) all have pretty broad product lines, esp. in comparison with other manufacturers who are much more specialized (H-D, Victory, Ducati, etc.) - how so? Bob M. |