How to save Harley Davidison
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From: J. Clarke on 16 Jul 2010 19:48 On 7/16/2010 2:07 PM, The Older Gentleman wrote: > Bob Myers<nospamplease(a)address.invalid> wrote: > >> don (Calgary) wrote: >> >>> Being talked about period is a measure of success for a motorcycle >>> company. Most non riders think motorcycle, they think Harley. >> >> Not unless "being talked about" translates into sales. (In >> this case it can be argued that it does, but that's beside >> my point.) The only "measures of success" for a motorcycle >> company are precisely the same as for any other comany - >> profitability, shareholder value, and other such purely >> financial parameters. Those who forget that - at least, those >> who are actually charged with running a company, and who >> forget that - and start thinking it's about "mindshare" or >> "image" or some such as ends in themselves are pretty much >> always doomed to be the ones leading their companies into >> oblivion. > > > Agree 100%. > > OTOH, HD has been around for over a century. Studebaker was 114 years old when their strategy failed.
From: tomorrow on 16 Jul 2010 20:45 On Jul 16, 7:40 pm, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use...(a)cox.net> wrote: > On 7/16/2010 2:35 PM, tomor...(a)erols.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 16, 2:18 pm, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older > > Gentleman) wrote: > >> tomor...(a)erols.com<tomorrowaterolsdot...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>> HD *is* a small volume producer, really, and yes, BMW, Ducati and > >>>> Triumph are even smaller. Moto Guzzi smaller still It's impossible to > >>>> argue otherwise. > > >>> How do you define "small volume producer," then? > > >>> Anyone who doesn't produce millions of scooters and mopeds? > > >> I think anything over half a million units counts as volume in today's > >> world, but ultimately it's pointless trying to establish a yardstick. > > >> Millions of scooters and mopeds certainly count - why shouldn't they? > > > Because in general, when motorcycle enthusists think about > > motorcycles, they don't think about mopeds and scooters. And thus > > Harley, with 40+% of the current total U.S. streetbike market, > > Not even Harley claims 40 percent. Doesn't mean it isn't true. Are you claiming it isn't true? Then which of the sales numbers that I have cited from Harley, BMW, and the Motorcycle Industry Council (which all agree, btw) is incorrect? > They claim something like 50 percent > of the 750 and up market. Okay, seems reasonable. > > > does > > not qualify - to most motorcycle enthusiasts - as a "small volume" > > manufacturer. Neither does BMW > > BMW is ten times the size of Harley. BMW motorcycles? Or BMW the corporation? We are not talking about cars here in rec.motorcycles. Or maybe, you are. If so, you are talking to yourself. > > or Triumph > > Actually Triumph is pretty small. > > > or Ducati, > > One thinks of Ducati like one thinks of Ferrari, as an adjunct to a race > team, One does. Others most assuredly do not.
From: S'mee on 16 Jul 2010 20:47 On Jul 16, 5:40 pm, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use...(a)cox.net> wrote: > On 7/16/2010 2:35 PM, tomor...(a)erols.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 16, 2:18 pm, totallydeadmail...(a)yahoo.co.uk (The Older > > Gentleman) wrote: > >> tomor...(a)erols.com<tomorrowaterolsdot...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>> HD *is* a small volume producer, really, and yes, BMW, Ducati and > >>>> Triumph are even smaller. Moto Guzzi smaller still It's impossible to > >>>> argue otherwise. > > >>> How do you define "small volume producer," then? > > >>> Anyone who doesn't produce millions of scooters and mopeds? > > >> I think anything over half a million units counts as volume in today's > >> world, but ultimately it's pointless trying to establish a yardstick. > > >> Millions of scooters and mopeds certainly count - why shouldn't they? > > > Because in general, when motorcycle enthusists think about > > motorcycles, they don't think about mopeds and scooters. And thus > > Harley, with 40+% of the current total U.S. streetbike market, > > Not even Harley claims 40 percent. They claim something like 50 percent > of the 750 and up market. > > > does > > not qualify - to most motorcycle enthusiasts - as a "small volume" > > manufacturer. Neither does BMW > > BMW is ten times the size of Harley. Not the motorcycle division...maybe half the size of Harley and I'm sure I'm being genours. Side not the SS1000r demolished an M3 at the race track in a back to back comparison. Though the M3 had one advantage...you could pick up your mistress and her twin sister for a weekend of decadent indecency whilst the moto rider would be stuck deciding which one to leave at home. 8^) > > or Triumph > > Actually Triumph is pretty small. It's the cold wet weather, causes shrinkage y'know. > > or Ducati, > > One thinks of Ducati like one thinks of Ferrari, as an adjunct to a race > team, so no, one does not think of them as being large and one does > expect them eventually to either change their character or get digested > by some larger company, just as happened to Ferrari, Maserati, and > Lamborghini. > That's a fair cop and how I've mostly thought of them in the past.
From: S'mee on 16 Jul 2010 20:49 On Jul 16, 5:48 pm, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use...(a)cox.net> wrote: > On 7/16/2010 2:07 PM, The Older Gentleman wrote: > > > > > > > Bob Myers<nospample...(a)address.invalid> wrote: > > >> don (Calgary) wrote: > > >>> Being talked about period is a measure of success for a motorcycle > >>> company. Most non riders think motorcycle, they think Harley. > > >> Not unless "being talked about" translates into sales. (In > >> this case it can be argued that it does, but that's beside > >> my point.) The only "measures of success" for a motorcycle > >> company are precisely the same as for any other comany - > >> profitability, shareholder value, and other such purely > >> financial parameters. Those who forget that - at least, those > >> who are actually charged with running a company, and who > >> forget that - and start thinking it's about "mindshare" or > >> "image" or some such as ends in themselves are pretty much > >> always doomed to be the ones leading their companies into > >> oblivion. > > > Agree 100%. > > > OTOH, HD has been around for over a century. > > Studebaker was 114 years old when their strategy failed. The auto division yes. The company as a whole is still a business.
From: The Older Gentleman on 17 Jul 2010 03:56
J. Clarke <jclarke.usenet(a)cox.net> wrote: > On 7/16/2010 2:07 PM, The Older Gentleman wrote: > > Bob Myers<nospamplease(a)address.invalid> wrote: > > > >> don (Calgary) wrote: > >> > >>> Being talked about period is a measure of success for a motorcycle > >>> company. Most non riders think motorcycle, they think Harley. > >> > >> Not unless "being talked about" translates into sales. (In > >> this case it can be argued that it does, but that's beside > >> my point.) The only "measures of success" for a motorcycle > >> company are precisely the same as for any other comany - > >> profitability, shareholder value, and other such purely > >> financial parameters. Those who forget that - at least, those > >> who are actually charged with running a company, and who > >> forget that - and start thinking it's about "mindshare" or > >> "image" or some such as ends in themselves are pretty much > >> always doomed to be the ones leading their companies into > >> oblivion. > > > > > > Agree 100%. > > > > OTOH, HD has been around for over a century. > > Studebaker was 114 years old when their strategy failed. Really? Didn't know that. I wonder how old BSA was when it went down... <Googles> Founded in 1861: merged with Manganese Bronze, as bankruptcy loomed, in 1972. Made its first bike in 1905 and used to be the world's largest motorcycle manufacturer. Of course, BSA was anything but a 'one-product' company. -- BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes! Try Googling before asking a damn silly question. chateau dot murray at idnet dot com |